[2021 Six Nations] Wales vs England (27/02/21)

[Not Eddie Jones]

You know what. You really are bang on with this and I'm going to apologise now in advance. I'm actually still kinda drunk and being a prick. Hands up.

I guessed as much, and I'm not surprised. A record 40 points against England is worth an all-night drinking session in Wales, I'm sure.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

This is fair but are you though? All three wins could of been losses if not for some fortune. Twice the opposition commiting brain-dead penalties and once with some poor refereeing. Sure you won by more than 14 points in the end but we all know it's a very different game if Wales are playing catch up all game and England aren't. As noted as well England completely lost it at the end end and I agree Wales played well but against more composed opposition?

To me Wales are getting better, I'm just unsure they are getting better at a pace or convincing enough that I'd be happy with if it was England.

Yeah, this is the oddity to me. Before the tournament Pivac was on the hotseat because he was losing and the team's performances were poor. Now he's won 3 from 3 (and let's face it, Italy is a given and France are still a penalty-and-red-card machine, despite Galthie's improvements, so it could even be a GS), Welsh fans seem very happy and believe he's taking the team forward. But from the outside, it just looks like he's got a bit lucky rather than any major improvements in play.

 

[dullonien]

Didn't Biggar inform the ref he was going for the posts, which is why England thought he was going for the posts? I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Gauzere even point at the posts to signal a penalty kick.

Don't think he did. I think there is some blame on the English players for not getting back in position quicker, there was plenty of time to do so (as they themselves showed by being in position on the other side of the pitch). I think England players had assumed Wales were kicking for posts.

But I still don't understand why the ref doesn't just give them another couple of seconds to at least get back roughly in position. Guessing he just got bored of waiting and thought England had been given enough time and it's their fault they were gently strolling back?

I'd be ****** if I were English, I know that.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I guessed as much, and I'm not surprised. A record 40 points against England is worth an all-night drinking session in Wales, I'm sure.

Especially when we don't even get out of 2nd gear. Very encouraging

 

[bushytop]

Having slept on it and then caught up on this thread, it's interesting the completely different attitudes of Welsh and English fans towards their team...

England won the 6N and the ANC last year and this board was replete with English fans calling out their team for not playing well, not looking like they could kick on and beat the world's best, and desperately needing changes to improve despite the wins and the trophies. Before the Wales game, a lot of England posters were even saying that a loss might be beneficial to the team because it would force changes, myself included, as winning was just papering over the cracks.

Wales beat no-one but Georgia and Italy in 2020 and looked poor. This 6N they beat Ireland by 5 points despite Ireland playing with 14 men for 66 minutes, Scotland by 1 point depsite Scotland playing with 14 men for 26 minutes, and then beat England with two, shall we say, controversial tries coming early on, then blowing 17-6 and 24-14 leads against them before a whole bundle of silly, unforced England penalties gifted Wales the win. And Wales fans appear to be deliriously happy, over the moon, a win's a win etc.

What I mean is, if England had performed the way Wales had over the first 3 games of this 6N, England fans would have torn the team apart, talked endlessly about how the wins were papering over the cracks, and that the team was not going to go on to any success playing medicore and relying on other teams' unforced errors to get them through games. But this barely seems to bother Wales fans at all.

Is it just that England fans have bigger fish to fry? Or is it that Wales fans are more content with less?

Neither, if England had just had as poor a year as Wales in 2020, you guys would've been a lot more happy with your results from last year and if we had just won't two internatIonal competitions, we'd be asking for more from the last 3 games.

 

[Jakedood]

A couple of things to note

England probably deserved a scores lead or something at 69 minutes, maybe 6/7 points (could say 8, as sales may have kicked penalties instead of dubious tries scored)
England are made for strangling opposition with territory, not so much at forcing the pace. They are very very effective at keeping teams pinned back in their half and forcing them into errors, so in this type of game i would have back england to win. However they lost and indiscipline is a big reason

Couldn't believe the speed of LRZ vs may, i wondered if may has slowed from his 10.3 100m times, and his place may be under threat

The last intercept on Robson was coming, you could see them coming off the line hard and his challenging first defender every time predictably before going wide was a weakness. Should be doing it occasionally with a hard runner on the shoulder, but otherwise too slow, and I'm curious if Randalls speed of service will be seen in summer at least off the bench

Daly is struggling for form and looked horrible yesterday, bar one magic moment. He needs at least a bit of time out of spotlight, i think malins may get a start before six nations end

Slade disappointed me and again may see that power center but wasn't as poor as Daly

Farrell i thought wasn't great with the ref, but his performance as a player alone was exactly what he needed. Brilliant defensively, was very impressed with the force of his tackling and thought he looked a lot better on the gain line

Could talk about other players under fire but think they mostly showed real improvement. How good did making vunipola look? Sinckler could maybe do with someone pressuring him more, to get that edge back, Wilson did a lot of dirty work without really standing out, i was a little disappointed in him but that's his role.
Willis may have had a decent effort in this game bar injury which is such a shame

Edit: just seen first 15 mins again now, had a bad stream yesterday watching it behind, and the first two pens against england were extremely harsh on May and Itoje. Very very harsh
And the third one itoje for side entry before the maul had formed... Not as bad, but still could make an argument of legality. At this point england should have clocked that they should be almost not competing at breakdown or doing anything overly clever, hes a whistle happy ref to say the least

 

[Welsh Exile]

Are people really that surprised. We were a ******* tier 2 nation going into this tournament. I'm sure most in Wales, who hadn't be on the beer, assumed we'd finish 4th or 5th this year and maybe Pivac would be gone.

So, yeah, we're pretty happy. If you had said to me we'd finish 4th and our set piece and defence was better than the previous year I think I honestly would've taken it as that's how bad we was.

Defence has massively improved. As has set piece and as I keep saying, and not to troll, but it's encouraging when you win games and you still see loads of room for improvement. We're still early on in our evolution as a team under Pivac.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Neither, if England had just had as poor a year as Wales in 2020, you guys would've been a lot more happy with your results from last year and if we had just won't two internatIonal competitions, we'd be asking for more from the last 3 games.

Oh come on, have you ever seen a happy England fan on this board?!

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Especially when we don't even get out of 2nd gear. Very encouraging

It's encouraging that you can't get out of 2nd gear for your biggest game of the year?

 

[Welsh Exile]

It's encouraging that you can't get out of 2nd gear for your biggest game of the year?

Yeah. Weird isn't it.

 

[TommiG88]

Who cares about rugby, it's only sport at the end of the day.

 

[Jimbo]

Neither, if England had just had as poor a year as Wales in 2020, you guys would've been a lot more happy with your results from last year and if we had just won't two internatIonal competitions, we'd be asking for more from the last 3 games.

Don't go MIA you are genuinely one of the few Welsh fans you can have a constructive conversation/debate with, without it turning into an all out trolling session.

 

[bushytop]

Didn't Biggar inform the ref he was going for the posts, which is why England thought he was going for the posts? I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Gauzere even point at the posts to signal a penalty kick.

Nope

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Nope

I thought Jiffy said he did?

Okay, my mistake.

 

[bushytop]

I thought Jiffy said he did?

Okay, my mistake.

so now 'we're' listening to Jiffy... ok bud

 

[ncurd]

I thought Jiffy said he did?

Okay, my mistake.

Jiffy getting something wrong? Say it isn't so.

Why does the BBC allow the Jiffy and Butler show these days? It was excruciating yesterday and whilst I've never liked Butler when the only other voice was Moore it worked as Moore would bring him back to earth. Now all Moore get to do is occasionally pipe up of Jiffy has kept quiet for 5 seconds.

 

[bushytop]

My head hurts... wow 'didn't even offer me a reach-around'!

 

[Umaga's Witness]

My head hurts... wow 'didn't even off me a reach-around'!

Glad to see you are alive

 

[MattGaff]

Wales 2021 is not going to be remembered for winning the hearts and minds of other nations!
Somehow we have become the villains of this tournament when luck/red cards/ref calls go our way.

Am I happy we are winning in the manner the games are unfolding? Absolutely!

Before the tournament I genuinely thought we'd only beat Italy, then Pivac will be gone, then we'd be in the crapper for finding a decent coach. I rate Pivac and am more than happy the cracks are being papered over with these controversial wins. It will give him more time to develop and relieve a bit of pressure.

Damn straight I (we) are happy. Our boat was definitely rocked when Gatland left and new coaching mostly always has a transition period of instability.
We will improve and that makes me excited TBH.

I love the 6N, it's my Xmas... but calling it our biggest game (but not yours) is a bit disingenuous. I personally still target the WC as our big one.

 

[Jimbo]

Am I miss remembering or did Daly look pretty good under the high ball throughout (especially in the first 5) then absolutely butcher several attacking opportunities with knock ons.