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[2021 Six Nations] Wales vs England (27/02/21)

Yeah I've been thinking how many SH sides have not had a traditional openside and they've completely redefined the role in terms of how rugby is played....

Hooper, Cane, du Tout/Louw

Can't say any of those guys can't do the basics of being an openside.

And no one is saying on either side that Tipuric can't do the basics. Matey boy has always maintained he's very talented.

The problem with the ABs is that they can do everything. That's the trick. Someone like Ardie Savea is a great example but you can pick any of them really.
 
Also, to clarify, I was talking in the context of northern hemisphere not globally as already discussed, NZ have been miles ahead of all of us for the best part of a century.
 
Also, to clarify, I was talking in the context of northern hemisphere not globally as already discussed, NZ have been miles ahead of all of us for the best part of a century.
Hmmm seam to remember beating them quite comprehensively last time out. Ireland have a couple of decent wins under their belt to last cycle.

The current ABs aren't the all conquering demigods of the McCaw era.
 
Hmmm seam to remember beating them quite comprehensively last time out. Ireland have a couple of decent wins under their belt to last cycle.

The current ABs aren't the all conquering demigods of the McCaw era.

Yeah and I thought we already discussed the fact that NZ didn't turn up that day. Lol.

NZ are still miles ahead in my humble opinion no shame in that, though.
 
And no one is saying on either side that Tipuric can't do the basics. Matey boy has always maintained he's very talented.

The problem with the ABs is that they can do everything. That's the trick. Someone like Ardie Savea is a great example but you can pick any of them really.
So are you finally saying that Tipuric, in fact, cannot do everything?
 
Yeah and I thought we already discussed the fact that NZ didn't turn up that day. Lol.

NZ are still miles ahead in my humble opinion no shame in that, though.
Sadly the results don't really back you up on that, lost against Argentina too and they didn't beat Australia last time out.

They're a good side but not miles ahead of anyone.
 
So are you finally saying that Tipuric, in fact, cannot do everything?

Nope, he can do everything. He's a special player in my opinion. If he was kiwi I reckon he might even get the nod over Cane. Imagine Tipuric alongside Savea at 6. I'm clearly biased, though.
 
Lewis Moody:


"Tips is old enough to have played against me a few times and has hardened up a lot as a player, bolting physical defence on to his natural running and support ability.

"Tipuric is the nearest thing the northern hemisphere has to an All Black style of openside and, with Navidi's huge stopping power and Faletau's athleticism, the three of them form a formidable unit and will be every bit as competitive as England. Indeed, on form, they're possibly the better of the two combinations on view and I really feel that England will have to be on top form to better them."
 
Did he just say on form a better back row than England? Surely not. He must work for Wales
Online. Lol
 
Possibly the better of the two combinations on view. Wow a full strength back row might be better than a back row containing a horrifically out of form and lazy 8 and a solid squad player in Wilson. I'd hope so wouldn't you!!?
 
Sorry. I'm being childish. I miss VC so so much!

Can't say I want England to lose, but we really need to change of the guard. And a one off excellent performance will not mask over the shower of poop that England have been the last 12 months
 
How funny. Just listening to a pod with my favourite all time player Joe Marler and he just said the following

"Tips, he just blows my mind, is he playing this weekend? He is just ridiculous he's got to be up with the best player I've ever played with and I just think he's never really got enough plaudits I know people think he's brilliant but he's unbelievable he's not just brilliant"
 


OKay so rewatched this game's first half (cba with whole game) to look at Tipuric, figured I'd give his involvements a rating from 1-10, also noting that I'd expect an average of around 6 from these because usually any involvement should in fact be positive in nature. Times are the video times, not match time. I havent included regular ruck inspections/clearouts, or lineout lifts. And if something is done just as per expected (eg lineout wo n on own throw) will not be given a 10 rating

8:07 - Lawes catches the ball having stopped and lost momentum, very upright, Tipuric rushes off the line. Lawes still make yards in the tackle despite receving man and ball at the same time. And although he's improved, carrying is not the strongest part of his game, poor impact from Justy boy - 2

10:10 makes a tackle on Anthony Watson, shepherding him into touch. Not overly physical, but good positive result - 7 (Pretends to attempt quick throw, and nails Watson in stomach for good measure with it)

Not involved in England's opening try other than initial maul defense

12:55 - Is in charge of attempting to Pressure Ben youngs box kick, makes minimal effort - 5 (as likely no outcome to come from it, but still, surprised at lack of effort)

17:00 - Last man to join the scrap, pathetic effort. Also looks confused when he arrives :p no rating for this, just a joke

22:10 - Good tackle on marauding Curry, stops momentum dead, though was a joint tackle with Ken Owens, so - 6

23:35 - Farrell shoves Biggar, ends up tripping himself - LOLS

24:24 - Curry with minimal footwork gets on outside and breaks gain line through poor tackle attempt. Completed tackle, but leaves defense on back foot - 3

24:30 - Has ball kicked at him, reacts well to pick up rebound - 6 (Again nothing special here)

29:00 - Good defensive read, shoots up out of the line to prevent ball going wide - 7

29:58 - Watches as Jamie George steps in side, then attempts to obstruct Itoje reaching ruck from offside position. Not picked up by ref, but could have been - 4

30:05 - Grinding up against his outside centre, as George North wins a penalty by poaching

31:10 - Wins own lineout ball, sets up maul- Uncontested catch - 6

34:02 - Slaps ball back from England players after Kickoff scramble - 6

34:45 - Mainstream carry, lack energy, attempt at a show and go but no acceleration into contact or attempt to break tackle - 5

36:20 - Itoje Screaming at Welsh scrum half, leaning over a ruck. Relatively amusing

36:25 - Recipient of a crossfield kick from Biggar, held width well but not a contested catch. - 6

38:40 - Nice late pullback pass - 7

40:00 - Ruck inspecting and side entry (an odd combo) - Again got away with it, but pointless - 4

47:11 - Again charging down kick along AWJ, doesnt even raise his arms, confused as to why?

47:45 - In lineout, poor throw (very low) not meant for him, but slow to react at tail and knocks it on - 4

54:25 - Carries with more energy this time, tackled by Curry, Wriggles for a yard maybe - 6


So thats 84 points out of 16 involvements by my count, averaging a rating of 5.25

Thats only the actual involvements and doesnt take into effect he was a ruck inspector, with no real offensive ruck impacts other than being last man there and standing over a ball, he didnt slow any of England's ball all half
He makes a lot of tackles because he lurks in that 2nd man from the ruck spot, where you basically make every tackle against a play off the scrum half (which england didnt do a whole lot of this game, hence his lesser tackle number first half), and offensively lurks wide nearly all the time. Had no noticeable impact on the game bar a flashy kick out wide, and a good defensive read, maybe could add lineout prowess to that. Was poor in the tackle, in that he brought his man down but regularly lost a lot more ground than you'd expect from your openside, and the first hit on Lawes was particularly shocking in the resulting yardage gained by Lawes given the position he was hit in
ABsolutely nothing to say this man deserves the hype, he may look good in training and have lots of skills, blah blah blah, but in a rugby game from my openside, I'd say Mark Wilson, Lawes and Curry all provided more than he did (Yes that was the English backrow)
If in included his non involvements in these areas, I'd have him well below average in this first half performance. And i tried to be generous in my markings

Just let that sink in - Not a single defensive ruck involvement, not one from an OPENSIDE FLANKER

On a side note, Tuilagi red and England finish game with 13 men, letting Wales get close... maybe he stood out second half, because he loooks best against understaffed defenses in his wide out lurking
 
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Wow. I've got to someone it would seem. Got a lot of time on your hands. I haven't read your post as I don't have a spare 5 hours but will try and read it some point soon. In the meantime I'm back on the pods listening to people wax lyrical about Tipuric.
 
Wow. I've got to someone it would seem. Got a lot of time on your hands. I haven't read your post as I don't have a spare 5 hours but will try and read it some point soon. In the meantime I'm back on the pods listening to people wax lyrical about Tipuric.
The only way to counter you is with cold hard facts of a game in which you claim he stood out in. I put the time and effort in purely for your education
 
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