[2021 Six Nations] England Squad

[AlRums]

These combined teams things are pointless anyway. It's just a bit of fan about what individuals you like. In reality it's about the unit and a blend of skills and who has the best functioning team even if some individuals are weaker than others.

Such a game England/Wales Vs Scotland/Ireland did take place back in 1980



Check out the Andy Irvine try!!

 

[AlRums]

Didn't someone get a stat that said no Welsh player has ever got a red card in the 6 nations?

I dunno if I would ever stop laughing if it was AWJ

Yeah, that was me

In the 6 nations only 10 red cards have been given. 5 of them were for teams playing against Wales, but no Welshman has ever got a red card

 

[NickBD]

Would be astounded if that's the case. Quite apart from anything else we'd be into a 3rd 10/12 combo in 3 matches with a new skipper. That would look like panic.

Faz is a problem right now, but I'd say Youngs inaccuracy and momentum killing is more material.

Yeah Faz as well as Daly are the only two out of Billy, Youngs, Faz and Daly who won't get dropped. Only 2 who could be dropped is Youngs and Billy. Reason for this both never got subbed even when they had bad games or unfit but both got subbed early in both games in 2nd half anyway. It's unlikely but some hope. I'd drop all 4 but that 100% won't happen so if I had a choice I'd Daly and Youngs would be the first 2 I'd drop, Youngs the debate is 5 years old why so don't need go in to it. However with Daly, I can't take him missing another tackle or being out of position anymore. His attack use to level it out ( although that all isn't his fault recently anyway) but doesn't anymore, he even looks slow sometimes. Look at the last 10 tries England have given away Daly is at fault for almost a lot of them.

 

[BrokenWing]

You never know, replace Yongs and get some quicker ball and Ford and Farrell might get a bit more expansive..... What am I saying.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You never know, replace Yongs and get some quicker ball and Ford and Farrell might get a bit more expansive..... What am I saying.

More expansive kicking?

 

[TW27BA]

Lawrence in for Farrell, Malins for Daly, Robson for Youngs and Earl/Wilson for Billy.
0% chance but I'd like to see it albeit wise heads are needed in Wales whatever team they put out.

Is Underhill anywhere near coming back? We miss him paired with Curry.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is Underhill anywhere near coming back?

Not sure when he's back for Bath but he's fully withdrawn from the England squad so I don't think he's in contention for any of the 6N games

 

[ncurd]

Not sure what the longterm time frame is but I know he's missing the whole of the 6N

Think him and Launch are in the same boat, should be back for potential Lions but won't be able to make their stakes during the 6 nations.

Although look at the way the teams are playing reputation is going to count a lot more than form because no one's got any.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Think him and Launch are in the same boat, should be back for potential Lions but won't be able to make their stakes during the 6 nations.

Although look at the way the teams are playing reputation is going to count a lot more than form because no one's got any.

Can we just say we have found this new scrumhalf, fantastic talent, his name is Anthony Ofbridge. He is definitely not a kidnapped Frenchman.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If Eddie doesn't drop Young's, Daly, Billy and Faz I really do think he's lost the plot. There is zero reason to not drop them and it makes perfect sense to replace them while they are unfit, out of form and playing poorly.

Really wish Jones would actually pick our best 15 and not his idiot yes men.

 

[BPM]

So the small matter of about 400 caps worth of experience = 'zero reason'? You really do make me smile.

I agree that all four are out of form, but it would be a very bold move to drop the captain and the spine of the side in one fell swoop. It's also about who you replace them with which is tricky when we only have 28 players to pick the 23 from.

Can you imagine the reaction if Eddie dropped the four of them and we lose to Wales? I'm pretty certain it would not be good.

Here's how I see it ...

Farrell and Youngs are arguably the easiest to change.

For the first time in a while, Robson actually took the opportunity to make a bit of an impact. Probably not to the extent that there's genuine pressure on Youngs, but he's at least made a case to start. Ford should be our 10 anyway IMO and I'd like to see him alongside Lawrence at 12, but I don't know if we'll see that ...

Similarly, Daly should be a straight swap for Malins, but it would be a big call to basically admit defeat and recognise that his run at 15 has ultimately been more of a failure than a success.

Dropping Billy is probably the most problematic as you're probably looking at Lawes staying at 6 and then 2 from Curry, Wilson or Earl at 7 and 8. I don't mind that, but it does significantly change the make up of the back row and how we'd likely use them.

It's all well and good calling for wholesale change but it isn't really as simple as that in test rugby.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If there's a change I think it'll be Robson for Youngs,
I think we'll see the same 23 as the Italy game - though I'm not sure whether it'll be Wilson or Lawrence onto the bench in place of Willis, leaning towards the former.
I could see EJ not playing Lawrence for the rest of the tournament just so it doesn't look like the media is swaying him (like he did with Armand and Cipriani in the past).

Farrell won't be dropped, he's the captain
Billy won't be dropped because he never is,
Youngs has been rotated in the past (not since Care was in favour, but it has happened). Robson got half an hour (borderline unheard of for an EJ sub) vs Italy and played really well
I can't see Daly being dropped - like Billy he's an ever present in Jones' sides, even when playing badly. In the (very little) game time Malins has been given he's not put in the same kind of hand-forcing performance that Robson has (through no fault of his own, really - hard to really shine in a handful of minutes, but considering EJs selection tendencies it would take something special for him to break from his favourites)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's all well and good calling for wholesale change but it isn't really as simple as that in test rugby.

No, it isn't. But we didn't need to be in the position where we're even talking about it.....

Binny's been out of form for years. Sinecure - no real alternatives tried.

The same criticisms have been levelled at Youngs for years. Sinecure - no real alternatives tried.

It's been blindingly obvious for years that Daly isn't a full back. Sinecure - no real alternatives tried.

By doing nothing about it and not bringing competitions for those places Jones has made a rod for his own back and is now starting to come under pressure for change in several key positions. He has options for all of them, but no clear Plan Bs with anything other than unproven potential (assuming Malins not Watson is next in line at FB).

Now we also have the added complication of Faz being totally out of form too. He's the skipper and won't be canned yet. We have an experienced alternative to him at 10, but that means he goes to 12 and we're still no nearer having a settled / balanced midfield.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

No, it isn't. But we didn't need to be in the position where we're even talking about it.....

Binny's been out of form for years. Sinecure - no real alternatives tried.

The same criticisms have been levelled at Youngs for years. Sinecure - no real alternatives tried.

It's been blindingly obvious for years that Daly isn't a full back. Sinecure - no real alternatives tried.

By doing nothing about it and not bringing competitions for those places Jones has made a rod for his own back and is now starting to come under pressure for change in several key positions. He has options for all of them, but no clear Plan Bs with anything other than unproven potential (assuming Malins not Watson is next in line at FB).

Now we also have the added complication of Faz being totally out of form too. He's the skipper and won't be canned yet. We have an experienced alternative to him at 10, but that means he goes to 12 and we're still no nearer having a settled / balanced midfield.

This, 100% this. This was going to happen eventually as all players have poor spots but if we just continue picking the same 15 players then I can't wait for an injury in the next World Cup and we pick a 2 cap 12 or a 10 cap 9.

Is go Wilson to 8, Robson to 9, Ford at 10, Lawrence at 12 and leave Daly as I don't think Malins is playable there yet and we don't have other options because Jones is an idiot in some ways.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Farrell to be dropped, Mako to captain

 

[Reiser99]

Farrell to be dropped, Mako to captain

View attachment 9352

Reckon the RFU is trying to send subtle hints to Jones?

 

[ncurd]

Reckon the RFU is trying to send subtle hints to Jones?

Its either that or Jones trolling us.

 

[klitarris]

Farrell won't be dropped, and I'm not 100% sure I would drop him for the trip to Wales. He was better in week 2 but still not great.

I don't reckon BV will be dropped either, particularly with Willis gone and our backrow options more limited as a result. Also he is so central to how we play and there's not a like for like replacement in the squad. You can say we should try playing a different way, but is Wales away really the time to be doing it? I reckon Jones is counting on BV being on Lions duty so he can try alternatives on the summer tour (is that happening?). Is it how I would do it? Probably not, but Jones has enough credit in the bank to do things his way.

Youngs should definitely be replaced by Robson, and I can totally see it actually happening. Robson was so much better when he came on against Italy and really livened things up.

Daly should definitely be dropped. I can see it happening but not confident it will.

Overall, I have mellowed my opinion regarding Farrell and BV. I think there should be two changes which are Youngs for Robson and Daly for Malins. I'll be happy if we see both of those, but it wouldn't surprise me if we only see one.

It still leaves issues elsewhere (mainly midfield balance - Ford, Farrell, Slade doesn't work. Too many playmakers and not enough doers) but wholesale changes to the spine of the team for Wales away is not the right time to be trying things out. If only we'd had a match against a poor team where alternative options could be played...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't reckon BV will be dropped either, particularly with Willis gone and our backrow options more limited as a result. Also he is so central to how we play and there's not a like for like replacement in the squad. You can say we should try playing a different way, but is Wales away really the time to be doing it?

Billy is so out of form/has been for so long, that literally any backrow in the country could fill that role, though.
It's not like he's bulldozing through defensive lines and breaking a hundred tackles a game - he doesn't even garner special attention from the defence anymore, he gets brought down by regular 1 on 1s at international level

Don't think Willis' injury influences selection at 8 - it's Earl and Wilson who are in contention for that shirt

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Farrell to be dropped, Mako to captain

View attachment 9352

I AM NOT HAVING AN ENGLISH CAPTAIN WITH A STRONG WELSH ACCENT.

That would be way too far beyond the pale.