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2021 British & Irish Lions Squad

Just finished it. Funny that Rassie seemed to be the one who broke the story. Lol. He's got some good spies.

There's no way he would read a medical report that said he wasn't fit and fly him out. He wouldn't do that. I don't think any coach would endanger a player like that. He always said if he gets through contact then they'll make a decision then. Sounds like he'll be doing a double session tomorrow with the Wales squad so we'll know then.

Yeah I think the decision to fly him out is more around how he goes in training. The medical report should determine whether or not he can take part in training. If he comes through training ok then I think it's a done deal.

Rassie wants another A Boks v Lions game this weekend but Gatland shot that down pretty fast
 
Yeah I think the decision to fly him out is more around how he goes in training. The medical report should determine whether or not he can take part in training. If he comes through training ok then I think it's a done deal.

Rassie wants another A Boks v Lions game this weekend but Gatland shot that down pretty fast
Yeah If he gets through training then all it will come down to is AWJ and how it feels. He could well underplay something but I don't think he'd want to go out there and not be confident to put in hits and what not. He is a bit of a freak though and obviously I'm very biased but I think it would be a great story for him to recover from a dislocated shoulder so quickly to make it back 10 days before the first test.

Yeah read that he shot that down. I like the fact that we're playing a strong SA A side bit I would rather play the Stormers on Saturday if poss.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a convenient shuffling of the side to give the realistic test players a taste. Ideal world would be winning the first and second and then giving all the others a test cap in the third
 
Being biased towards certain players is just called having an opinion.

Discriminating against a player based on their nationality is something totally different and pretty hard to prove and also something I would bet is a load of bollix.
Smith v Sexton is pretty damning....
 
Gatland has final say obviously but I just can't see a scenario where Tandy and Townsend are really pushing for Sexton and Gatland goes with Smith so it's probably a collective decision. As said the reasoning is its a like for like swap. Not saying I necessarily agree with it but then I would I've had Sexton in my initial squad over Farrell but it's all opinions at the end of the day.
 
Not really with the reasoning. He wanted someone more like Russell so Smith makes sense, if Biggar or Faz went down he'd pick Sexton I'm sure
If you believe that you'd believe anything, his reasoning for Beard over Ryan was instantly proven to be bogus too. His job is to win a tour so clearly Smith makes no sense, there's no gameplan that would make picking a player of such lower quality worth it.

Just think about this for one minute, we know how much Gatland rates experience and big personalities. He praised BOD massively for his work in training after being dropped in 2013, he kept an injured POC in the squad in the same year for his presence, he made AWJ captain despite being at best the 4th best lock in the four nations. He proceeds to pick a kid with no experience over the best player across his two tours who has been heralded by so many players as a key squad leader? His reason for not picking him initially was that he didn't think he'd last the tour, he played more minutes in the 6n than the 10s picked.

We're talking about a coach who previously said that his players hate the Irish the most and he clearly has an axe to grind. His excuses are paper thin, and he doesn't care, he's a bitter old man thinking he's getting his own back.
 
If you believe that you'd believe anything, his reasoning for Beard over Ryan was instantly proven to be bogus too. His job is to win a tour so clearly Smith makes no sense, there's no gameplan that would make picking a player of such lower quality worth it.

Just think about this for one minute, we know how much Gatland rates experience and big personalities. He praised BOD massively for his work in training after being dropped in 2013, he kept an injured POC in the squad in the same year for his presence, he made AWJ captain despite being at best the 4th best lock in the four nations. He proceeds to pick a kid with no experience over the best player across his two tours who has been heralded by so many players as a key squad leader? His reason for not picking him initially was that he didn't think he'd last the tour, he played more minutes in the 6n than the 10s picked.

We're talking about a coach who previously said that his players hate the Irish the most and be clearly.has an axe to grind. His excuses are paper thin, and he doesn't care, he's a bitter old man thinking he's getting his own back.
But if that was the case why take any Irish players? Or just take 1 or 2 and really stick the knife in. Players like Conan came out of nowhere so it can't just be a getting his own back type of thing. As you say he wants to win. I guess we never know what goes on behind closed doors and stuff and Gatland can defiantly hold a grudge which is apparently why players like Marler and Vunipola wouldn't be considered but I haven't heard of any personal beef Gatland has with Sexton. I'm sure he has a lot of respect for him. For all we know Gatland wanted Sexton and all the other coaches wanted Smith. I'm not saying that's what happened but you never know.
 
But if that was the case why take any Irish players? Or just take 1 or 2 and really stick the knife in. Players like Conan came out of nowhere so it can't just be a getting his own back type of thing. As you say he wants to win. I guess we never know what goes on behind closed doors and stuff and Gatland can defiantly hold a grudge which is apparently why players like Marler and Vunipola wouldn't be considered but I haven't heard of any personal beef Gatland has with Sexton. I'm sure he has a lot of respect for him. For all we know Gatland wanted Sexton and all the other coaches wanted Smith. I'm not saying that's what happened but you never know.
Because he needs to win and he's not a complete idiot, anyone who has watched Conan's career closely knows that when fit he's top class. Every Irish player selected is a possible test starter apart from Aki who is a pure Gatland player, half of them are as close to nailed on as you're going to get.

If Gatland wanted Sexton, Sexton goes. We're talking about Johnny Sexton here, he's had a better career than anyone in South Africa, a world player of the year who's won everything but a world cup and was integral to the last two tours (one of which Gatland dropped him and was uncompetitive as a result). That's it, argument over, Sexton is on the plane.

Defending Gatland on this is the height of ridiculousness. Where do we need to get to and what do we need to stop ignoring before we admit there's bias at play? Dropping a centre despite him performing far better than his midfield partner? Picking a 37 year old retired Welsh player? Picking a de facto uncapped player over a world player of the year? Four Welsh club level players? Maybe if he starts himself at hooker will be the final straw.
 
Because he needs to win and he's not a complete idiot, anyone who has watched Conan's career closely knows that when fit he's top class. Every Irish player selected is a possible test starter apart from Aki who is a pure Gatland player, half of them are as close to nailed on as you're going to get.

If Gatland wanted Sexton, Sexton goes. We're talking about Johnny Sexton here, he's had a better career than anyone in South Africa, a world player of the year who's won everything but a world cup and was integral to the last two tours (one of which Gatland dropped him and was uncompetitive as a result). That's it, argument over, Sexton is on the plane.

Defending Gatland on this is the height of ridiculousness. Where do we need to get to and what do we need to stop ignoring before we admit there's bias at play? Dropping a centre despite him performing far better than his midfield partner? Picking a 37 year old retired Welsh player? Picking a de facto uncapped player over a world player of the year? Four Welsh club level players? Maybe if he starts himself at hooker will be the final straw.
I honestly think if Farrell or Biggar were injured Sexton would've got the call.

I agree Sexton should've gone originally but I disagree with you on what you think Gatlands reasons were for not picking him. I don't think he's got any personal problem with him and I certainly don't think there was any xenophobic thoughts that went into the decision.

Biggars form has been good, he loves Farrell and Townsend was always going to get Russell and he also made sense as he offers something different. We'll never know obviously but I think it's a bit odd you think Gatland thinks to himself how can I screw over the Irish as much as possible but picking players like Porter and Conan and getting Kelleher up to the squad.
 
So yeah, he'll have pick himself then. As I said earlier, you'd believe anything if you believe his reasoning for picking Smith. There's no scenario where Smith is better for the squad than Sexton, Gatland has history, is on record saying "his players" hate the Irish players. I don't think he's xenophobic/discriminatory and never said it, but if you're involved in Irish rugby you have to be a far sight better than your English or Welsh rivals and even that's often not enough.

Not even his buddy Farrell tried to defend him on this one unlike the Ryan case.

I'm clearly not going to convince you but I don't see how you can genuinely believe he's not biased on this.
 
Not for me sorry Alpha. I applaud Smiths selection, it's a little bit of a gamble, but Smith is a potential bolter who could have a serious impact of this tour imo.

I also love the fact that there's still room in this modern day to pluck an inexperienced, almost uncapped player for the lions. Smith is just that sort of selection for me, a player who's been very good for a couple of seasons with his club, and absolutely sensational this season. The impact he had with Harlequins in winning the prem cannot be underestimated.

I put Simmonds in this bracket too. Maybe neither end up making a huge impact, but I still applaud the boldness of selecting them.

Sexton has been an amazing player, one of the very best, especially for Leinster and Ireland for the most part, and he probably would have been the safe option, but Biggar is already that safe option who's also been in better form.

That's the way I see this one anyway. Hoping to see Smith tear it up on the weekend and showing why he's possibly a world star in the making.
 
Not for me sorry Alpha. I applaud Smiths selection, it's a little bit of a gamble, but Smith is a potential bolter who could have a serious impact of this tour imo.

I also love the fact that there's still room in this modern day to pluck an inexperienced, almost uncapped player for the lions. Smith is just that sort of selection for me, a player who's been very good for a couple of seasons with his club, and absolutely sensational this season. The impact he had with Harlequins in winning the prem cannot be underestimated.

I put Simmonds in this bracket too. Maybe neither end up making a huge impact, but I still applaud the boldness of selecting them.

Sexton has been an amazing player, one of the very best, especially for Leinster and Ireland for the most part, and he probably would have been the safe option, but Biggar is already that safe option who's also been in better form.

That's the way I see this one anyway. Hoping to see Smith tear it up on the weekend and showing why he's possibly a world star in the making.
I absolutely contend Biggar being in better form, Sexton was better 1v1 with 14 men in Cardiff, Ireland were ahead when both left the pitch. He was Motm v Scotland. Top three player on the pitch v England, and the only player to start those games not to tour. Biggar was bailed out by Sheedy more than once. Russell did everything he could to lose to England. Farrell, well read the England thread. At the end of the 6 nations Sexton was most people's pick to start.

Sexton's the safer, better option, Smith literally isn't a good enough player to be better than Sexton in any scenario here. Smith hasn't played a European knockout for crying out loud, he's a world star in the making, maybe, but he's far from a positive addition in a Lion's tour over world star Johnny Sexton.

He was integral for Quins winning a prem, great. Sexton captained Leinster to 3 of their 4 Pro14s in a row, never failed to reach European knockouts and won world player of the year in the timeframe. When Sexton had as many caps as Smith he had a motm in a win over world champions South Africa not an ok performance v Canada.

I know Gatland is a legend in Wales, that's totally fair. I know it's hard to criticise and I was slow to with Schmidt but I got there, and if in a similar position he picked Harry Byrne or Marcus Smith over Dan Biggar I hope I'd call it a farce because it would be.

Admitting you'd applaud the boldness of a failed decision just shows me how lost you are in it all. Without Sexton in '13 and '17 Gatland never wins a Lions tour or gets a win over NZ, not a chance, Marcus Smith isn't better than the backups he had for those tours.

Lads just please stop and think about this, forget the bullshit Lions "aura", forget the coach, forget the clubs and nationalities of the players. You're playing South Africa tomorrow and have to pick Sexton or Smith, the only reason you'd pick Smith is if you want South Africa to win. It's a bogus selection, one of many and very much indicative of the reason half the Irish/English/Scottish on this forum have borderline distasteful South African usernames!
 
Gatland, picks Russell in the squad with no intention of ever starting him.

Also Gatland, I've picked Smith to replace Russell as he's the same style…..

The style you won't pick anyway. Makes perfect sense.
 
So yeah, he'll have pick himself then. As I said earlier, you'd believe anything if you believe his reasoning for picking Smith. There's no scenario where Smith is better for the squad than Sexton, Gatland has history, is on record saying "his players" hate the Irish players. I don't think he's xenophobic/discriminatory and never said it, but if you're involved in Irish rugby you have to be a far sight better than your English or Welsh rivals and even that's often not enough.

Not even his buddy Farrell tried to defend him on this one unlike the Ryan case.

I'm clearly not going to convince you but I don't see how you can genuinely believe he's not biased on this.
But Smith isn't going to be in the match day squad. Biggar and Farrell were picked ahead of sexton and now Russell is out they've gone for a like for like 3rd choice option. As has been said, if Biggar or Faz were injured I reckon he would've brought Sexton in as there would've been a higher chance of Sexton featuring.

I don't get what you really think Gatlands motivations are then. You're saying he's not picking him because he's Irish but then saying xenophobia hasn't got anything to do with it. What is it then?

Of course his opinions are biased, it's an opinion. Literally everyone's opinion is biased. Your opinion is extremely biased, so is mine. Gats is no different. We're not dealing in facts here. A lot of sport is unquantifiable. We're not dealing with 2+2=4. We're dealing with biased subjective opinions it's just that you're holding onto this really odd idea that because Sexton is Irish he's not been selected whether I contend there are rugby reasons why the coaches have collectively gone for Smith as a third choice instead of Sexton.
 
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Anyway, let's forget the Sexton chat as I'm sure we're all on the same page with regards to all keeping our fingers crossed that AWJ makes it through training today. Press conference around midday apparently so not long to wait.
 
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