2021 British & Irish Lions Squad

[General Melchett]

If Beard started a test match (he won't) and we won would he still be a **** rugby player?

You'd need to look at how the match unfolded. I mean, if SA got two red cards and were down to 13 men or played a B team due to COVID cases then a win doesn't necessarily mean selecting Beard was the right call.

Gatland scraped a draw four years ago but that doesn't mean every call he made was right. He made a monumental error by selecting Howler as head attack coach. He lost the players who took charge of tactics in the decider.

 

[Welsh Exile]

You'd need to look at how the match unfolded. I mean, if SA got two red cards and were down to 13 men or played a B team due to COVID cases then a win doesn't necessarily mean selecting Beard was the right call.

Assuming it was a full strength SA side and no reds.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Christ get that chip off, I don't think anyone has said he's **** just bang average, meh and anonymous.

Still players like Trevor Woodman started a world cup final and won, I don't think you'll find many willing to go out and bat for him as anything special.

No chip just curious as to what it would take for people to change their minds on a player. I mean, we do it all the time don't we. Usually when we watch a player more.

The lions is a bit different. Obviously comprising of 4 nations its super competitive. I'm not sure there's been any average players who have played for the lions though there could be 1 or 2 but will obviously depend on your definition of average.

I'm not overly fussed. I think Beard has really improved and is a pretty decent player and a very good line out operator especially defending driving mauls but yeah, I think he's decent and others think he's at best average. Not like it's a huge gap in opinion.

 

[General Melchett]

Assuming it was a full strength SA side and no reds.

I'd still say no. The outcome could be decided by a moment of brilliance by one player. Beard could have a shocker and be bailed out by his team mates. We'd need to look at the match in detail and look at individual performances.

You could say that NZ lost the second test and so picking Beauden Barrett was a mistake but everyone knows SBW cost them the game with his red card. Need to look at incidents, events and individual performances within the game.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yes

What would you need to see from him for you to elevate him to "decent/good" rugby player. What do you think his weaknesses are?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Jones loss can galvanise Lions in South Africa

Ex-British and Irish Lions scrum-half Matt Dawson says the loss of captain Alun Wyn Jones can galvanise the squad

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd still say no. The outcome could be decided by a moment of brilliance by one player and that could still mean selecting Beard wasn't necessarily the right call. Beard could have a shocker and be bailed out by his team mates. We'd need to look at the match in detail and look at individual performances.

Yeah that's fair. I would say, though, that to get a win against the Boks you'll need a team performance and everyone to play pretty well. You're right though, it's certainly possible he has a stinker and we still win.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Like for example, my concern with Hill is not necessarily his ability as I'm always impressed by him when I watch him play for Exeter but I worry about him performing at this level but his discipline also does worry me. Ball skills perhaps not the best from what I've seen either but it's more a mentality thing and lack of experience thing with him, for me anyway.

 

[General Melchett]

Like for example, my concern with Hill is not necessarily his ability as I'm always impressed by him when I watch him play for Exeter but I worry about him performing at this level but his discipline also does worry me. Ball skills perhaps not the best from what I've seen either but it's more a mentality thing and lack of experience thing with him, for me anyway.

Hill has a workhorse in Gray alongside him at Exeter which means it's pretty effective combo. Hill and Beard together is a disaster waiting to happen. They would each need to have an Itoje or Henderson alongside them to get the balance right. That's why not replacing AWJ with another workhorse like Gray is a bit baffling.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Hill has a workhorse in Gray alongside him at Exeter which means it's pretty effective combo. Hill and Beard together is a disaster waiting to happen. They would each need to have an Itoje or Henderson alongside them to get the balance right. That's why not replacing AWJ with another workhorse like Gray is a bit baffling.

Good point. It's all moot anyway as I'm sure we're all on the same page in terms of who we want to see start in the row and that's Itoje and Henderson. I'm 90% sure that's what it will be but you never know with Gats I suppose.

 

[Welsh Exile]

My main issue with Beard is that he's massive but he doesn't throw his weight around enough. Also, he's a solid tackler but he could be a bit more aggressive perhaps.

He's got a good rugby brain on him, though, and he really turned our **** lineout around in the 6N. A good lineout caller shouldn't be underestimated.

Who calls the line outs for Ireland and England?

 

[big ginger 8]

Henderson calls the attacking lineout and Ryan calls the defensive lineout.

Beard is a player I've never been worried about to see in an opposing pack. He's a big unit but doesn't play to his size and tries to do the ****ly stuff and isn't very good at it. I also don't rate Hill and his discipline is a liability.

 

[Welsh Exile]

So, teams for Saturday? Assuming we're rotating

Wyn Jones George Sinkler
Itoje Hill
Curry Watson
Simmonds

Davies
Russell

Farrell
Harris

LRZ Watson
Hogg

 

[ncurd]

My main issue with Beard is that he's massive but he doesn't throw his weight around enough. Also, he's a solid tackler but he could be a bit more aggressive perhaps.

He's got a good rugby brain on him, though, and he really turned our **** lineout around in the 6N. A good lineout caller shouldn't be underestimated.

Who calls the line outs for Ireland and England?

I'm unsure who calls its when Kruis is not playing (so that's the last 8 months) who was a noted extremely canny operator. So there's been some drop off but we haven't been shocking either.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Just realised there's no Irish lads in that team. Should have one of them in there really. I'm struggling though. Brain isn't working today. I'll let one of you Irish boys pick a player to go in.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

My main issue with Beard is that he's massive but he doesn't throw his weight around enough.

Is he that massive though?

He's tall but pretty lanky - taller than both Lawes and Itoje but similar weight, and neither of those are known as big lumps

Hill, for example (though I question this because he doesn't look big, and certainly doesn't play like he's got this much weight behind him) is 3st heavier at the same height

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm unsure who calls its when Kruis is not playing (so that's the last 8 months) who was a noted extremely canny operator. So there's been some drop off but we haven't been shocking either.

Wonder who It'll be for the Lions?
Henderson is probably the best bet.

I've always been a fan of Henderson but I hadn't ever really watched a long interview with him before so it was nice to watch that press conference with him before the Japan game. He does seem like one of those guys that you listen to when he speaks. He's got that softly spoken thing that most of the Irish lads have but at the same time you know you wouldn't want to **** him off. He'll be in the leadership group I'd imagine.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Is he that massive though?

He's tall but pretty lanky - taller than both Lawes and Itoje but similar weight, and neither of those are known as big lumps

Hill, for example (though I question this because he doesn't look big, and certainly doesn't play like he's got this much weight behind him) is 3st heavier at the same height

Hill ain't 3 stone heavier than Beard is he? Surely not. Beard must be 19/19.5 stone so Hill can't be 22 stone. I'll google now but weight is always unreliable on the net.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hill ain't 3 stone heavier than Beard is he? Surely not. Beard must be 19/19.5 stone so Hill can't be 22 stone. I'll google now but weight is always unreliable on the net.

Beard 18 and change, Hill 21 and change, apparently

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah, there's so much discrepancy on line. I've ended up going for what it says on the Chiefs and Ospreys website

chiefs say Hill is 112 kegs and Ospreys say Beard is 117 kegs.