[2020 Six Nations] France vs England (02/02/20)

[Reiser99]

Honestly LBP was far more than we deserved. Without May we didn't look like scoring at all.

Really got to question Jones' tactics and selections because he got it badly wrong today.

 

[duncanb]

Disagree entirely, keep ball in instead of the 3 or 4 times it was lost outside and those are easy pens due to the huge dominance of the English front row. Instead ball turned over. Not to mention the potential for penalty tries for repeat infringements from further scrums or breaks and carries from 8 which France had no need to worry about/defend against today.

Dombrant, Symmonds or even Hughes (who's had an impressive season) would have changed a lot.

No scope for Penalty try for repeat infringement the action must be that try would probably have been scored.
Since the new scrum laws for last 10 yrs hard to think of a push over try.
Law requires for repeat scrum offences.
Pen
Pen
Warning.
Yellow a prop or whichever is player.
Replacement .
Yellow again or Red.
Result uncontested but could be 15 v 13 or 12 or 11 potentially.
But yes would prefer an 8 for control and pickup at scrum base as that is all there speciality is have no issues of Curry being there as long as he improves these parts.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Disagree entirely, keep ball in instead of the 3 or 4 times it was lost outside and those are easy pens due to the huge dominance of the English front row. Instead ball turned over. Not to mention the potential for penalty tries for repeat infringements from further scrums or breaks and carries from 8 which France had no need to worry about/defend against today.

Dombrant, Symmonds or even Hughes (who's had an impressive season) would have changed a lot.

Yeah, Curry badly lost control at the base a couple of times and we needed someone to get the pack going forward. I'm sure Curry wanted to be in that shirt as much as we all wanted him in it, but he was a total fish out of water.

Even way below par, that game was totally winnable. A balanced back row, a competent 9 and starting our best lock would probably have been enough. Jones could have provided all those and takes most of the blame, but the whole mental strength question just won't go away.

Leadership's a massive issue. Farrell may not be ideal, but he's there for the 6N and doesn't get much support. If you ditch him, seriously who else? Itoje's not the answer.

 

[ikvat]

We are back.

 

[jaunard06]

Nice victory for such a young team, with a back having only 1 selection that was not so long ago playing in federal...
But as usual France can barely hold the score, until the last moment I feared to see the same incredible turnover we lived during that France Wales match where France dominated comfortably at half time to finally lose the game...

 

[Which Tyler]

I'd rather have 3 flankers than 3 locks.
Yes, I'd prefer a number 8, or at least, a flanker who's accustomed to covering 8 (Simmonds, Kvesic, Bayliss, Harrison, Earl etc)

 

[bushytop]

The worst performance I've ever seen from Youngs in an England shirt. Get him off.

Hmmm... I've seen worse!

 

[Rinkadink]

Didn't the ball pop out once in the scrum that was going forward?
The other times Owen was adamant that both sides was not going forward just the LH so at best it would be a reset.

At least once in first half and at least once in second, I believe there were more but I'm not going back through it all to check. Worst case a reset is still keeping pressure on rather than turning ball over. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I'm not saying that alone was the reason just to be clear, but when you add up all the things like 9 and 12 and 11 and an inexperienced 15 plus other malfunctions it all comes apart.

My biggest take away from England is that if this was an experimental side with lots of fresh faces and systems with an eye on the next world cup today would have been perfectly acceptable. The fact that Eddie went for the win with tired old formulae and has come massively undone isn't acceptable IMO.

Reet, late doing the food now after that. Catch you all soon.

 

[Scotty]

What did we make of Furbank? He seemed calm under pressure some good kicks and runs, not a game breaker but he was in no way responsible for us losing the game.

Surely the lock in the back row test is over, we have tried it twice and its looked terrible both times. Dombrandt would have helped so much, hell starting ludlam would have helped. The aggresive ludlam and LCD seemed to help as well as genge is genge stepped the scrum up

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Furbank really played like most young players making a debut in a international in a team playing at half mast would play like.
Nothing special but nothing too bad.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What did we make of Furbank? He seemed calm under pressure some good kicks and runs, not a game breaker but he was in no way responsible for us losing the game.

Surely the lock in the back row test is over, we have tried it twice and its looked terrible both times. Dombrandt would have helped so much, hell starting ludlam would have helped. The aggresive ludlam and LCD seemed to help as well as genge is genge stepped the scrum up

Started well, made a few mistakes then seemed to recover his mojo a bit. Tough game to make a debut in. Should stick with him and if Watson's fit he should partner May on the wing. Daly can go to the bench or fight for 13.

Aggression and physicality matter.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Anyway Uncut gems with Adam Sandler on Netflix so time to forget about that game.

 

[bushytop]

Well England getting their **** together a bit in the second half actually made this a great match from a neutral's perspective. Obviously Edwards has had a massive impact on these young and impressionable French boys... his appointment could really go on to be a master stroke. Du Pont is unbelievable... 'might' be my new favourite player, he's up there anyway.

Sometimes coaches who have earned themselves a lot of credit through achievements (I'd call a World Cup final an achievement, as well as a GS and a further Championship) **** around playing players out of position thinking that their genius 'sees' something no one else does. It rarely if ever works... certainly not with any consistency. Then, generally these coaches learn from the experience and go on to select balanced teams with players in their correct positions moving forwards. For some reason, Eddie doesn't strike me as a coach that will see his error and correct it.

 

[TheOvalBall]

We are back.

Slow down. First game, although a good start, but lets take it game by game.

 

[Saint Matt]

Pretty easy game to analyse IMO. I thought the team selection killed us really, certainly couldn't fault the effort or the endeavour of the team but we just lost too many collisions. You could see it early on in the game, we were getting knocked backwards from the off and we couldn't generate any ruck speed. Physically, they were miles better and when you lose the physical battle, especially when it's wet like today, you lose the game there and then. The conditions were perfect for a Shaun Edwards defence, wet and slippery and they got off the line hard and often and we just couldn't get any momentum. We can fix that with personnel changes though, that doesn't have to be a major issue.

Tuilagi was a big loss obviously in that regard. A midfield of Ford, Farrell and Joseph behind a pack lacking ball carriers is always going to struggle. We didn't generate enough speed around the ruck to shift the ball.

Youngs certainly didn't help though it has to be said. Takes him an absolute age to pass the ball and France were basically on our guys before they'd caught the ball.

Can't fault the effort though, they tried hard and in the end, getting a losing bonus point is probably a decent effort. That game could potentially have turned into a blowout but they showed some character second half.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Nice victory for such a young team, with a back having only 1 selection that was not so long ago playing in federal...
But as usual France can barely hold the score, until the last moment I feared to see the same incredible turnover we lived during that France Wales match where France dominated comfortably at half time to finally lose the game...

I was dreading that the whole game lol

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well England getting their **** together a bit in the second half actually made this a great match from a neutral's perspective. Obviously Edwards has had a massive impact on these young and impressionable French boys... his appointment could really go on to be a master stroke. Du Pont is unbelievable... 'might' be my new favourite player, he's up there anyway.

Sometimes coaches who have earned themselves a lot of credit through achievements (I'd call a World Cup final an achievement, as well as a GS and a further Championship) **** around playing players out of position thinking that their genius 'sees' something no one else does. It rarely if ever works... certainly not with any consistency. Then, generally these coaches learn from the experience and go on to select balanced teams with players in their correct positions moving forwards. For some reason, Eddie doesn't strike me as a coach that will see his error and correct it.

If anything Jones strikes me as a coach who will look at this and decide the remedy for next week is putting Daly at 15 again and little else. Jones can see when a performance was bad but he never seems to identify why.

Also besides general selection and tactics, there was absolutely no intensity from England at all in that game. That's a mental problem.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Manu has done his groin, apparently

 

[bushytop]

If anything Jones strikes me as a coach who will look at this and decide the remedy for next week is putting Daly at 15 again and little else. Jones can see when a performance was bad but he never seems to identify why.

Also besides general selection and tactics, there was absolutely no intensity from England at all in that game. That's a mental problem.

Besides the mental problem, which has been discussed since last years 6 Nations and appears to be becoming more and more of a legitimate concern... I agree. I've said I can't see Eddie identifying an issue in his own decisions. He's clearly a very good rugby coach but his ego seems his biggest flaw.

 

[ikvat]

Slow down. First game, although a good start, but lets take it game by game.

Not this year in particular, but i'm sure that it's the begin of a renewal with a lots of youg talentuous players to come in the next year.