[2020 Six Nations] England vs Wales (07/03/20)

[MikeTheNative]

Their record against SH teams was appalling 3 wins out of 16 against Australia with the win coming at the start and end of his tenure.

South Africa was better with 5 wins out of 16. But it took 6 years to record the first and when the chips were down, knocked them out the last two world cups.....

@The Alpha Bro is correct if they could smell a 6 nations win they somehow managed it but they were shocking the rest of the time.

I agree about the extremely poor SH record. But the 6 nations record was decent. 2008 Grand Slam, 3 poor finishes after than to be fair all 4th. Then from 2012 you have;
1st, 1st, 3rd. 3rd, 2nd, 5th, 2nd, 1st.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd accept that comment from a Saracens fan perhaps, but from a Bath fan. Was the Scarlets taking you apart at The Rec so traumatic you have blocked it from your memory?

Please point out how my club being atrocious in any way stops the Welsh clubs being atrocious? Remind me how many things Welsh clubs have won in the same period as gatland was in charge of Wales.

Clearly you are quite sensitive about the issue though.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Please point out how my club being atrocious in any way stops the Welsh clubs being atrocious? Remind me how many things Welsh clubs have won in the same period as gatland was in charge of Wales.

Clearly you are quite sensitive about the issue though.

It was a good burn tho

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Given the state of the regions then, surely winning the Pro14 with the Scarlets is a feather in Pivac's cap? Shows he can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[anderton46]

Please point out how my club being atrocious in any way stops the Welsh clubs being atrocious? Remind me how many things Welsh clubs have won in the same period as gatland was in charge of Wales.

Clearly you are quite sensitive about the issue though.

Since Gatland took over, the Pro14 has been won 4 times out of 13 by Welsh teams and would likely have been more had it not been Leinsters domination of Europe/the league.

The challenge cup has been won twice in those 13 years by Welsh teams, so probably about right.

It's just the Champions cup where they fall behind, however the last 9 winners have been Toulon, Leinster or Saracens, so its hard to really expect a Welsh winner there.

It's lovely being all belittling in your response, however it seems to have little to no grounds?

I'll admit Dragons have always been truly awful, the Welsh equivalent of Bath you might say.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"it likely would've been more if other sides weren't better"

lol

 

[anderton46]

"it likely would've been more if other sides weren't better"

lol

When countering the claim that all welsh sides were atrocious for 13 straight years, I'd say my comments were fair

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Since Gatland took over, the Pro14 has been won 4 times out of 13 by Welsh teams and would likely have been more had it not been Leinsters domination of Europe/the league.

The challenge cup has been won twice in those 13 years by Welsh teams, so probably about right.

It's just the Champions cup where they fall behind, however the last 9 winners have been Toulon, Leinster or Saracens, so its hard to really expect a Welsh winner there.

It's lovely being all belittling in your response, however it seems to have little to no grounds?

I'll admit Dragons have always been truly awful, the Welsh equivalent of Bath you might say.

Again you seem to be taking it very personally and under the illusion that I care about you pointing out Bath have been ****? I know that and whatever club I support has absolutely no bearing on my statement. Did I say English clubs are all better on make any comparison between Welsh regions and the Premiership sides? Nope, I made a comparison between the performance of the Welsh national team to the Welsh regions. Your constant attempts to have digs at Bath are wasted, if you look through my posting history you would see I readily stated Bath have been dire over the years numerous times but I mean if you get some kick out of that thinking in some way it's an argument then fine...

Fact remains, Welsh regions have not performed as well as the Welsh national side has.

 

[anderton46]

Again you seem to be taking it very personally and under the illusion that I care about you pointing out Bath have been ****? I know that and whatever club I support has absolutely no bearing on my statement. Did I say English clubs are all better on make any comparison between Welsh regions and the Premiership sides? Nope, I made a comparison between the performance of the Welsh national team to the Welsh regions. Your constant attempts to have digs at Bath are wasted, if you look through my posting history you would see I readily stated Bath have been dire over the years numerous times but I mean if you get some kick out of that thinking in some way it's an argument then fine...

Fact remains, Welsh regions have not performed as well as the Welsh national side has.

With the greatest of respect, either you can't read, or you can't count. Wales have won the six nations 4 times in Gatlands era. Pro14 has been won 4 times in that same period by Welsh teams, with 2 european trophies also. Not sure what you are basing your points on, because those figures would suggest 4 international wins, to 6 regional wins. Bearing in mind there are only really 4/5 teams in the six nations, you'd really expect the win count to be higher than the regional game where there are a lot more teams represented.

 

[ncurd]

EJ got a public rap on the knuckles for his post match comments.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rfu-statement-on-eddie-jones-comments

 

[TRF_Olyy]

When do Lawes and Marler go up in front of the beak?
The u20s lad got his result like a day ago

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

When do Lawes and Marler go up in front of the beak?
The u20s lad got his result like a day ago

They probably have to figure out how to do the hearing remotely. WR don't want to be seen to be spreading this pesky virus.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Since Gatland took over, the Pro14 has been won 4 times out of 13 by Welsh teams and would likely have been more had it not been for Leinster's domination of Europe/the league.

The challenge cup has been won twice in those 13 years by Welsh teams, so probably about right.

It's just the Champions cup where they fall behind, however the last 9 winners have been Toulon, Leinster or Saracens, so its hard to really expect a Welsh winner there.

It's lovely being all belittling in your response, however it seems to have little to no grounds?

I'll admit Dragons have always been truly awful, the Welsh equivalent of Bath you might say.

Just a correction: Welsh regions won the Pro 12/14 three times since Gatland took over: Ospreys in 2010 and 2012, then Scarlets in 2017. Also, Dragons have been rather worse than Bath most years - more like Worcester level if anything.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

EJ got a public rap on the knuckles for his post match comments.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rfu-statement-on-eddie-jones-comments

"In the meantime, Eddie Jones and the RFU have proposed a high level discussion forum with World Rugby to help achieve greater general alignment between coaches and match officials."

Let's hope World Rugby accept. Something needs to be done about the inconsistency of reffing. Who knows, it may have been Eddie's intention all along. He rarely says anything to the press without considering it first. I thought at the time that he was defending his player, taking the heat off Tuilagi and putting it on himself, and fostering the us-against-them mentality that Dylan Hartley said Eddie was after for England, but now I'm wondering if it was a conspiracy between Eddie and the RFU to get this forum thing going.

Either way, the lack of punishment will make WOL seeth!

 

[anderton46]

Just a correction: Welsh regions won the Pro 12/14 three times since Gatland took over: Ospreys in 2010 and 2012, then Scarlets in 2017. Also, Dragons have been rather worse than Bath most years - more like Worcester level if anything.

Apart from that is incorrect, thanks for the update.

 

[ncurd]

Apart from that is incorrect, thanks for the update.

I just checked he's right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Pro14 at least whebn I look backwards to 2008 I can only find three welh teams listed as champions.

 

[anderton46]

I just checked he's right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Pro14 at least whebn I look backwards to 2008 I can only find three welh teams listed as champions.

Gatland was appointed in 2007. Ospreys were champions 2007-2008. 2007 appears twice there.

 

[ncurd]

Gatland was appointed in 2007. Ospreys were champions 2007-2008. 2007 appears twice there.

He didn't coach a game until the 2008....and was appointed in the 2007-8 season

He can't be held up at all for the 2006-7 season....

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

With the greatest of respect, either you can't read, or you can't count. Wales have won the six nations 4 times in Gatlands era. Pro14 has been won 4 times in that same period by Welsh teams, with 2 european trophies also. Not sure what you are basing your points on, because those figures would suggest 4 international wins, to 6 regional wins. Bearing in mind there are only really 4/5 teams in the six nations, you'd really expect the win count to be higher than the regional game where there are a lot more teams represented.

Ironic saying I can't count yet you couldn't even get the number right. Welsh teams have won the Celtic league / Pro 12 / Pro 14 on 3 occasions since 2007 inclusive, that is fewer ***les than Gatland has won in the 6N. However that is a more limited domestic tournament. Looking at average finishing in total for Welsh and Irish teams, there was not a single year in which teams averaged better finishing positions in the table than Ireland, with draws in 2 years. At European level where Wales are now also competing against English and French, Welsh clubs have only managed to get to the semi 2 times, never to the final and only had 10 teams reach the knockout stage, or less than 1 a year.

In comparison Gatland has been able to get Welsh players competing with teams that the regions are useless against, has won more ***les in a more difficult tournament and has had more consistent success. Also Gatland was appointed Welsh coach in November 2007, AFTER Ospreys won the league.

But y'know, Scarlets beating Bath somehow makes all the above irrelevant?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

RFU apologising to O'Keeffe over Jones' post match rant.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/12/eddie-jones-england-wales-rfu-apologise-ben-okeeffe-bill-sweeney