[2020 Six Nations] England vs Ireland (23/02/20)

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'll be supporting Ireland this weekend, hope England get smashed to teach the RFU not to let Jones continued arrogance go unchallenged!

Where is the assistant coach saying
'Hey Eddie, Lawes always plays poorly at 6, why not play curry there and Earl at 8 who looked good when he came on previously'

We are missing common sense ffs.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'll be supporting Ireland .

Welcome. Brother.

 

[duncanb]

I'll be supporting Ireland this weekend, hope England get smashed to teach the RFU not to let Jones continued arrogance go unchallenged!

Where is the assistant coach saying
'Hey Eddie, Lawes always plays poorly at 6, why not play curry there and Earl at 8 who looked good when he came on previously'

We are missing common sense ffs.

I guess most of us aren't particularly happy with parts of selection but to say you denounce your heritage well enjoy if Ireland win but don't celebrate if we win at times your posts are great but your personal hatred of Lawes and now your home country time to get an EU passport and move to that incredibly expensive place Dublin.
NB I love to visit Dublin and have a crac but wouldn't want to live there.

 

[Groundhog]

Welcome. Brother.

Living Sacrifice is a Bohs fan with a faded tricolour tattoo on his arm that he shows off on his annual family getaways to Lanzarote.

 

[spartan32]

I'm just trying to understand a worst case scenario here.

Manu out after 10 mins with the knackered groin gone again. Slade on and then out after 10 mins because he's not played a jot of rugby forever and Ireland smash the daylights our of him. With no pace left in the reserves JJ stays on the wing, getting outpaced by the much faster Irish wings. We are forced to push Lawes out to centre with Ewels and end up with 4 locks on the pitch at the same time and every play turns into an attempted rolling maul?!

oh god!!! It's a rugby nightmare!!! Although could make for hilarious viewing. And knowing you're gonna lose before you start really takes the pressure off.

 

[corny]

Does anyone have a reason why Jones is deliberately picking so many players out of position? It can't be coincidence. Has he said anything or been challenged in a press conference?

 

[Reiser99]

Eddie's been saying we need to learn to play without Binny since he went down injured for this 6N. Sorry, should have been clearer. But has Curry really reached his full potential at 21? Richard Hill could play anywhere in the backrow, so why can't Curry be that player too? Imagine if he does become that player!

I get that, but the way he's going about it seems to be giving players who can step in quickly mid-game experience, rather than developing depth in the position with players who play there regularly. I'm all for Curry playing there in an emergency, but taking one of the best 7's in over a decade and turning him into and 8 is madness, especially when 7 has been such a big issue over the last 5-10 years.

 

[Reiser99]

Does anyone have a reason why Jones is deliberately picking so many players out of position? It can't be coincidence. Has he said anything or been challenged in a press conference?

I think he picks players based on who he thinks is a good player and then tries to fit them in where he can because he thinks they are good enough regardless of where they play. He's picking players based on individual ability, rather than picking players that make a good team. At least that's my opinion.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Does anyone have a reason why Jones is deliberately picking so many players out of position?

No.

 

[Grizwald]

Does anyone have a reason why Jones is deliberately picking so many players out of position? It can't be coincidence. Has he said anything or been challenged in a press conference?

He's said in the past about seeing modern players being interchangable in terms of positons a la Jack Nowell could play flanker. Up until the RWC I fully expected him to come out and say say he'd been playing the long term game as an Aussie mole since he'd held a grudge since 2003 and him screwing with England was payback.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

The thing is "playing a different way without Billy" doesn't necessarily equate to being a complete mentalist and playing people out of their specialist positions. Even with a fit Tuilagi this selection would be madness. Joseph isn't a wing. Centre and wing aren't that comparable and top level wingers don't often transition to centre or vice versa. There's probably a reason for that. JJ is a fine player but at best we'll get away with it. At worst it'll look idiotic.

Curry is a 7. He could probably play centre too if we wanted him to. But he's a 7. Putting him at 8 to prove a point which imo Eddie is doing is bordering on negligent. There are plenty of English qualified 8's who would give as equally a good account of themselves at 8 as Curry will even if he maximises his performance there. Some of those players are even in the squad ffs.... It also means we'll be weaker in the key position of 7. Why Eddie? Why? Even if Curry plays well, it proves nothing. I'd bet decent money he won't play 8 at the next World Cup.....

Similarly Lawes isn't a 6. He's an athletic lock. Yes he can play 6 capably but that's not his strongest position and he's not better than Underhill in that position. He's probably direct back-up for Itoje. That's fine but shoehorning him in again is just stupid. I reckon Eddie is gambling on Lawes getting one good clean hit on Sexton and putting him out of the match....

Elliot Daly. Ffs he's just not cut it at FB yet we'll carry on against the prime exponents of the kick and chase. Stockdale will make him look like a muppet at least once and probably more.

Slade is another player who's good but appears to be made of glass. Him and Tuilagi in the same team? One as cover for other is like picking James Simpson Daniel to cover for Ian Balshaw. Chances are both may not last 20 minutes.

I've only ever resignedly wanted England to lose once before and that was in the nadir of Andy Robinson's reign when he was doing equally stupid things. I'm getting there with Eddie. It seems clear to me that he revels in trying to prove people wrong, loves conflict and is willing to lose games because of it. I imagine he also brooks no dissent. These are his picks and he lives or dies by them.

I've always said when the wheels come off no one will come to his aid. Even the catastrophic end of Lancaster's career was met with almost sorrowful knife plunging. With Eddie? You'll struggle to find room to get any more knives in....................

 

[duncanb]

The thing is "playing a different way without Billy" doesn't necessarily equate to being a complete mentalist and playing people out of their specialist positions. Even with a fit Tuilagi this selection would be madness. Joseph isn't a wing. Centre and wing aren't that comparable and top level wingers don't often transition to centre or vice versa. There's probably a reason for that. JJ is a fine player but at best we'll get away with it. At worst it'll look idiotic.

Curry is a 7. He could probably play centre too if we wanted him to. But he's a 7. Putting him at 8 to prove a point which imo Eddie is doing is bordering on negligent. There are plenty of English qualified 8's who would give as equally a good account of themselves at 8 as Curry will even if he maximises his performance there. Some of those players are even in the squad ffs.... It also means we'll be weaker in the key position of 7. Why Eddie? Why? Even if Curry plays well, it proves nothing. I'd bet decent money he won't play 8 at the next World Cup.....

Similarly Lawes isn't a 6. He's an athletic lock. Yes he can play 6 capably but that's not his strongest position and he's not better than Underhill in that position. He's probably direct back-up for Itoje. That's fine but shoehorning him in again is just stupid. I reckon Eddie is gambling on Lawes getting one good clean hit on Sexton and putting him out of the match....

Elliot Daly. Ffs he's just not cut it at FB yet we'll carry on against the prime exponents of the kick and chase. Stockdale will make him look like a muppet at least once and probably more.

Slade is another player who's good but appears to be made of glass. Him and Tuilagi in the same team? One as cover for other is like picking James Simpson Daniel to cover for Ian Balshaw. Chances are both may not last 20 minutes.

I've only ever resignedly wanted England to lose once before and that was in the nadir of Andy Robinson's reign when he was doing equally stupid things. I'm getting there with Eddie. It seems clear to me that he revels in trying to prove people wrong, loves conflict and is willing to lose games because of it. I imagine he also brooks no dissent. These are his picks and he lives or dies by them.

I've always said when the wheels come off no one will come to his aid. Even the catastrophic end of Lancaster's career was met with almost sorrowful knife plunging. With Eddie? You'll struggle to find room to get any more knives in....................

Fully respect your post but in is not about a 120kg player being unavailable .
And we would all choose others but in fairness best fit International players are there.
Of course my opinion only.

 

[TW27BA]

Without going over old ground, Eddies selections are becoming a huge annoyance to us armchair fans.
OK, we don't see what is going on in training, but EJ's insistance on playing people out of position must have some logical reason.
Maybe the whispers about Rassie taking over have made him look for an early escape with a payout although to be fair, he has been making strange selections for a long time now.

I don't hold out a lot of hope for England on Sunday.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I hate being called an armchair fan when in reality we are correct most of the time.

I'm a saints fan, I watch Lawes a lot, he never plays at 100% when at 6, he weakens the rucking and carrying of the back row when playing there.

This is fact not opinion, ask any one who watches the saints or just look at his stats (and how many times he gets turned over or slow ball when he does carry).

Time and time again Eddie makes decisions that are against us 'armchair' fans but we are right. Every time Lawes has played 6 for England, our carrying suffers, we are weaker in the ruck and he looks out of place there. Why persist with these terrible choices.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Fully respect your post but in is not about a 120kg player being unavailable .
And we would all choose others but in fairness best fit International players are there.
Of course my opinion only.

No they aren't. Mark Wilson turned out for Sale tonight and put in a decent performance. He's a better option at 8 than Curry and has international experience. FFS Ben Morgan is a better option than Curry at 8 and he has international experience. Nathan bloody Hughes is a better 8 than Tom Curry and has international experience.

I could make a pretty strong argument that even a winger like Marland Yarde or Denny Solomona (same beers as Manu right?) are better than a centre turned winger in Johnathan Joseph when playing on the wing.

Tuilagi cannot be relied upon to survive 40 let along 80 and Slade is equally fragile. 6-2 on the bench is just intransigence on Eddie's part and he knows it. He just doesn't care.

Underhill is a belting 6. Really top drawer. Seek and destroy. At 7 you lose that from him as surprisingly enough it's a different position. Curry is a belting 7, at 8 you lose his core strength which is the breakdown and you get the things he's not good at like traffic carrying and control at the base. Lawes at 6? Well he'll make a couple of big hits but his carrying is relatively poor and he's simply not bulky enough to do the damage required.

Eddie has loads of options but he consistently chooses ones that challenge even the most fervent fan to get on board. It's not about this weekend, the entire selection of the squad has been coloured by ego / prejudice. Personally I think England now win in spite of him, not because of him. France absolutely gave us a whipping and only the individual brilliance of J May made it respectable. We were outmatched at 6,7,8,9,10,12,13...... You don't win games like that.

Ben Youngs and Willie Heinz. Really? I'd accept losing with progression but that's not what this is.

 

[Roady26]

This selection is so odd, I don't even know where to start. At no. 1 then I guess.

Genge is in superb form at the moment and deserves to start in my mind but I guess you could argue about impact off the bench - though I'd rather have 60 mins of impact than 20.
Good to see LCD back in behind George.
Sinks needs to carry on hitting the ball at pace in the carry like he did against Scotland, not standing still like he did against France. I would like to see Stuart get some proper minutes - even if to save Sinks from playing 70+ mins for 5 tests in a row. Did Williams shag Eddie's missus before the WC or something?
Itoje and Kruis is the right call to start, though why Ewels is on the bench in addition to Launchers (who I think is class) is utterly beyond me.
Lawes at 6 is just as frustrating as ever. Curry should have that shirt nailed on for the forseeable future. If he wants an abrasive, strong, lineout option at 6 then why didn't he bring in someone like Ted Hill or Don Armand and not a lock.... oh wait. Lawes is an experienced, quality lock, but only a lock.
Underhill is top tier as ever - nuff said. Good to see Earl on the bench as well - is this Ludlam not making the cut as a utility back rower, Mark Wilson too?
I have no doubt that in time Curry would be a solid 8. He carries harder than people think - and his ball control at the base and lineout work will improve. But why he isn't on the flank with Underhill where he excels more comfortably - when we have so much talent at 8, to add to the quality of those flanker, that EJ refuses to pick - baffles me.

Not surprised to see Youngs back in at 9, I feel like the Heinzs' kicking in the Scotland game might have been the nail in the coffin for him as a starter.
I would prefer to see Farrell at 10. He's the Captain and the decision maker. He needs to be in control from his more natural position imo. Ford has been pretty good though regardless.
How long will Tuilagi last this time? I guess if he is fit you have to play him but who knows if he is really fit. Slade has barely played and I don't think it is good to parachute him back in too soon - if only JJ was fit an in good form to come off the bench into the centres...
So EJ brought in a former 7's player into the squad for an entire world cup, but doesn't even acknowledge his existance when we have a bunch of injuries in the back 3 a few months later... why was he even involved in the first place? What about those other two wingers in the squad? no... ? Alright - lets put a winger at fullback again and a centre on the wing and have next to no cover for anything on the bench. Sorted.

I can't see England winning this one to be honest but I hope I am wrong.

 

[BlackCrowe]

Super long shot, but if anyone should have a spare ticket (or a pair) suddenly become available for tomorrow then please message me. I'm in Ham/Kingston and can pick up any time today or at ground. Can't really afford much more than face value though.

As i said, a long shot but thought i'd ask.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just read in the Times that Furbank has stayed with the squad as injury cover and Jones has been obfuscating about whether he's fit or whether he's been dropped.

Article goes on to say that Earl has also been training on the wing this week. According to our resident genius-in-chief "He's that hybrid-type player who can play back row with pace and skill but also play in the back line with pace and skill".

Could cry.

 

[Scotty]

Just read in the Times that Furbank has stayed with the squad as injury cover and Jones has been obfuscating about whether he's fit or whether he's been dropped.

Article goes on to say that Earl has also been training on the wing this week. According to our resident genius-in-chief "He's that hybrid-type player who can play back row with pace and skill but also play in the back line with pace and skill".

Could cry.

So at 60 min subs come on, launch for kruis, ewels for Underhill and earl for JJ. So 4 at 4 5 at 5 4 at 6 5 at 7 7 at 8 8 at 14. Love it. Screw it why not move marler to 3 while we are at it.

EJ is rediculous but not stupid, he is experiementing and only he knows what he hopes to achieve. I dont think he should be sacked or even warned if we dont do well because i believe under him England will come good in the end but on the flip side i dont think he gets how much the 6N means to people.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Article goes on to say that Earl has also been training on the wing this week. According to our resident genius-in-chief "He's that hybrid-type player who can play back row with pace and skill but also play in the back line with pace and skill".

Could cry.

To be fair to EJ, having a back rower train on the wing a bit during the week when you plan on having a 6-2 split is pretty normal. It'd be more alarming if he didn't in all honesty. It's just preparing for a worst case scenario, doesn't mean he's planning on doing it.