[2020 Six Nations] England Squad

[Roady26]

I'm clinging on to hope that EJ is keeping with Youngs to help steady the squad with all the new faces, let him get his 100 caps and then phase him out. He probably won't but I'm hoping.

Thoughts post WC on Ford-Farrell? Personally I think Farrell-Manu-Joseph is our best combination in this squad at the moment.

Obviously EJ has his eye on him so I wonder if he wants Dombrandt to get a bit more premiership experience and fix some 'work ons' and then bring him in for the other tests this year after the 6N. I assume he has made him mind up on Simmonds and that's that.... because Eddie. So maybe he has just decided to to get all the young back row talent thats been on his mind in and not worry much about the positions and just see how they all get on and who makes the cut moving foward. Not much pressure on him for a performance this 6N having done well at the WC so maybe he just doesn't care about having a proper 8 for this tournament and wants to test out the talent?

Though if the first teamsheet goes up and I see Lawes at 6 I will completely give up guessing what EJ is up to (which I should have done a long time ago...)

 

[WarriorKelv]

Though if the first teamsheet goes up and I see Lawes at 6 I will completely give up guessing what EJ is up to (which I should have done a long time ago...)

See i'm pretty certain Lawes has been taken as a blindside with 6 locks being in the squad. Tbf I wouldn't mind a back row of Lawes, Curry, Hill that probably won't be the case but I think Hill has the attributes to make a good 8 and Ludlam as second choice 8.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Though if the first teamsheet goes up and I see Lawes at 6 I will completely give up guessing what EJ is up to (which I should have done a long time ago...)

The lock at 6 only had the tiny flaw of contributing to one of England's worst years and 6 nations results in recent history. Other than that minor detail it's a great idea that definitely should be tried more.

 

[bushytop]

 

[bushytop]

This is a classic example of why Eddie Jones cracks me up (58:15)...

 

[Nudger]

This is a classic example of why Eddie Jones cracks me up (58:15)...

Me too MATE

 

[Nudger]

The only change to the match day squad from the world cup is either hill or earls in for billy

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

The only change to the match day squad from the world cup is either hill or earls in for billy

Why you gotta do Cole and Slade like that?

 

[Nudger]

Forgot cole but jj for slade was used

 

[Scotty]

Launchbury to miss 6N opener with knee injury. Not a huge loss given we have 6 locks. Hopes to be fit for Scotland.

 

[ALJ]

It's not even just this squad, 8 is now a real long term problem.

You think?
We've got Dombrandt, Simmonds, Mercer and Wilson as potential back up.

Most a little unproven but a fair bit of potential.

There's also Morgan, Hughes or even Beaumont (not that I'd advocate for any of them tbh).

Key challenge for me is that EJ doesn't want to move away from his preference, a little like his weird blind spot at 9.

 

[bushytop]

You think?
We've got Dombrandt, Simmonds, Mercer and Wilson as potential back up.

Most a little unproven but a fair bit of potential.

There's also Morgan, Hughes or even Beaumont (not that I'd advocate for any of them tbh).

Key challenge for me is that EJ doesn't want to move away from his preference, a little like his weird blind spot at 9.

I know Hughes has never really showed great form in an England shirt but he was outstanding yesterday in a Bristol one.

 

[ALJ]

I know Hughes has never really showed great form in an England shirt but he was outstanding yesterday in a Bristol one.

Yep, absolutely battered us tbh and gave a Morgan a lesson.

Also sustained it, which I didn't think he'd manage.

 

[Jimbo]

I know Hughes has never really showed great form in an England shirt but he was outstanding yesterday in a Bristol one.

He has often (not consistently) looked good in the prem, he was great for Wasps at times, however you won't get many back him for England ever since Faf drove him backwards in one of the SA tour tests people have been unable to look past it (not that there was a great deal of support for him before that)

 

[BPM]

It's not even just this squad, 8 is now a real long term problem.

Jones has put all his eggs in the Binny basket. He hasn't been rewarded with outstanding form and even if Binny does battle back from this latest injury, unfortunately it's odds on that there's another around the corner. To not be thinking about a long term replacement like Uni Rig or even including a short term option like Hughes is irrational.

Moving Curry to 8 would be bonkers. Earl's the only option that makes a bit of sense but that would surely mean breaking up Curryhill with either the inexperienced Hill or a lock at 6.

I agree that the selection is irrational, but I'm not sure I follow your logic for 8 being a long term issue?

As scotty507 said, Dombrandt is currently a bit 'raw' for test rugby but he's 22 with a season and a half in the pro game. I'm confident he'll come good.

Mercer will also be in the running. I know Eddie seemed to go off him post the Japan game, but he's too good to ignore from a long term perspective IMO. He has a bit of everything, including a good lineout game which most of other 8s lack. But for injury, he might well have been in the mix.

The biggest thing for me is developing a strategy that makes the best of the 8s we have. Billy is basically unique so trying to get others to do what he does (as with Hughes) is a mistake. I'm not a fan of Hughes but I think he was hamstrung by being asked to emulate Billy which isn't his natural game.

My frustration is that it's a missed opportunity to have looked at viable alternatives, even if it was in training. Unless Ted Hill plays at 8, whoever plays there isn't going to be much bigger than Simmonds.

 

[Which Tyler]

He has often (not consistently) looked good in the prem, he was great for Wasps at times, however you won't get many back him for England ever since Faf drove him backwards in one of the SA tour tests people have been unable to look past it (not that there was a great deal of support for him before that)

Agreed, he's often looked great at club level. Unfortunately, he's just as often looked uninterested in being there.
Hadnhe done better for England aside from that match, I think the criticism for it would have been much more in jest, and generally forgiven. As it is, it's just a stand-out bad moment which isn't offset by many good moments at the top level.
I still think that what really sealed it for Hughes (amongst fans) was that he was asked to play an alien game for him, and be BillyII, which made him less effective, and probably demotivated. Essentially, he was set up to fail, and failed.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

No. Faf embarrassed him.

 

[Scotty]

Dombrandt excelled today against a weak sarries but still the breaks the offloads the turnovers. He definately did himself no harm in EJs books wonder what if he showed that he has worked on the things asked.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You think?
We've got Dombrandt, Simmonds, Mercer and Wilson as potential back up.

Most a little unproven but a fair bit of potential.

There's also Morgan, Hughes or even Beaumont (not that I'd advocate for any of them tbh).

Key challenge for me is that EJ doesn't want to move away from his preference, a little like his weird blind spot at 9.

Wilson's 30 so could only ever be a stop gap. While Simmonds and Mercer are good club players Jones clearly doesn't really fancy them and pairing either with Curryhill would be a pretty lightweight back row. Bench options at best.

Dombrandt's omission is mystifying. He's potentially got the lot.

Morgan's international race is probably run, but he should have been in the squad for the last few years. Hughes is playing well, but Jones has a track record of not looking back once he's decided someone doesn't cut it. Beaumont's not in the equation. It's the lack of succession planning to Binny that grates, a Binny who's either been unfit or not near top form for most of the last few seasons.

As you say, Binny's the anointed one and Jones doesn't want to look beyond, Now he has to he's found a problem.

 

[BPM]

I'm not sure how you can be so certain on who Eddie 'doesn't really fancy'?

You're probably right on Simmonds, who deserves a call-up IMO, but as I've definitely posted before, the issue is that Exeter are set-up to play to his strengths. He's good but he's not so good that England would change the rest of their back row to accommodate him. It's unfair, but not totally irrational.

I don't know if you can be so equivocal about Mercer. He is not as lightweight as you're suggesting and has been in a good chunk of Eddie's squads when fit. He was definitely one of the players Eddie wasn't happy with after the Japan game, but I think that was potentially a case of making a tough decision on who was going to be in the mix for the RWC or not rather than from a long-term POV. He's too good to ignore and offers different qualities to our other 8s - particularly as a lineout operator.