[2020 Six Nations] England Squad

[ncurd]

I was talking early 90s, Carling era. RWC final 91, GS 91, 92 & 95, another ***le in 96. Current lot can't match that yet.

My point was in comparison to the '03 team which at this stage in ambition is the same as the '99 team saying they'd go on to win the next world cup.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ah, sorry, see what you meant.

Maybe they are, but I guess one difference is that Jones has had a full RWC cycle to get things as he wants them whereas SCW came in half way through and was still experimenting in 99. A GS got away thanks to Scott bloody Gibbs.

 

[bushytop]

Ah, sorry, see what you meant.

Maybe they are, but I guess one difference is that Jones has had a full RWC cycle to get things as he wants them whereas SCW came in half way through and was still experimenting in 99. A GS got away thanks to Scott bloody Gibbs.

 

[Nudger]

In fairness our performance against ireland and nz were as good as any team i have seen play more consistency england make number one

 

[Scotty]

Ive been thinking about not including Dombrandt in this England sqaud. I think he should be there and given the injury to billy but i also think we forget he is only 22, yes we have had much younger players play and excell but i think EJ will give him a chance soon enough.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Ive been thinking about not including Dombrandt in this England sqaud. I think he should be there and given the injury to billy but i also think we forget he is only 22, yes we have had much younger players play and excell but i think EJ will give him a chance soon enough.

I tend to agree, for every three of his eye catching efforts there's an error, something that he'll hopefully iron out with another season.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genuine question:
Are there any players that were expected to be named in an EPS, not, and then named at a later date after proving themselves further?

Only players I can think of that the reaction was this big were Armand and Cipriani - neither of which Eddie caved to public opinion.

Not naming Dombrandt, despite there not being a single 8 in the squad, strikes me as a little deeper than "He needs to get his skin folds down". Eddie is pretty hard headed - as shown by Robson and Spencer missing out.

 

[Scotty]

Genuine question:
Are there any players that were expected to be named in an EPS, not, and then named at a later date after proving themselves further?

Only players I can think of that the reaction was this big were Armand and Cipriani - neither of which Eddie caved to public opinion.

EJ will not bend to public opinion, but he has had Dombrandt in camp before and im sure is in contact and he knows exsctly what he needs to work on. I hope he is used vs Japan, see how he deals with a fast past game in defence, that will be a big test for him.

Doubt we will see him this 6N without injuries.

I also wonder if EJ wants to see how we adapt without a big ball carrier in the back row given we have a pretty powerful front row.
Mako genge
George lcd
Sinks William

What ever order they start are all good carriers.

Plus he might want a back row of 6. Hill 7. Underhill 8. Curry. Have your carrier at 6 like a chiefs back row.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's fair,

I really hope we see Earl over Curry at 8 - the idea of putting him there is crazy. He never even played 6 until England put him there (it always used to be Ben that would go to 6), so starting him in a position he's never played when Earl (despite being a flanker) has a decent amount of top level experience there....it's just a bit too out there for my liking.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

In fairness our performance against ireland and nz were as good as any team i have seen play more consistency england make number one

They were both brilliant performances albeit against a waning Ire and a non vintage ABs. But they were closely followed by the Scottish fiasco and the no show in the final. Consistency is a hallmark of a great side - if we could regularly get close to the Ire / NZ standards we'd be some force. The reality though is that in sorting out the downsides you often have to compromise some upside.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

given we have a pretty powerful front row.
Mako genge
George lcd
Sinks William

What ever order they start are all good carriers.

They're not all good scrummagers though and if there's one lesson Jones really really needs to learn.....

I don't think you need a Binny style brick wall type carrier in the back row - if you do that can be a traditional 6. What I think you need at 8 is a biggish smart ball player - Parrisse, Read, Faletau. Uni Rig can totally fit that bill....of course he doesn't yet, no-one's a ready made international, but he does seem to have a natural rugby brain. I guess he probably failed a beep test or a body fat measurement or some other useful indicator of rugby ability.

 

[g6mcg]

Any Bath fans have strong opinions on Ewels? He's never struck me as particularly good at anything. Jones seems to rate him though so interested to learn what I'm missing.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not naming Dombrandt, despite there not being a single 8 in the squad, strikes me as a little deeper than "He needs to get his skin folds down".

It's not even just this squad, 8 is now a real long term problem.

Jones has put all his eggs in the Binny basket. He hasn't been rewarded with outstanding form and even if Binny does battle back from this latest injury, unfortunately it's odds on that there's another around the corner. To not be thinking about a long term replacement like Uni Rig or even including a short term option like Hughes is irrational.

Moving Curry to 8 would be bonkers. Earl's the only option that makes a bit of sense but that would surely mean breaking up Curryhill with either the inexperienced Hill or a lock at 6.

 

[Mumbles119]

Genuine question:
Are there any players that were expected to be named in an EPS, not, and then named at a later date after proving themselves further?

Only players I can think of that the reaction was this big were Armand and Cipriani - neither of which Eddie caved to public opinion.

Not naming Dombrandt, despite there not being a single 8 in the squad, strikes me as a little deeper than "He needs to get his skin folds down". Eddie is pretty hard headed - as shown by Robson and Spencer missing out.

I have another question related to this please...
Is the EPS process still set up to have two major selection and/or change of personnel opportunities?
I seem to remember the rules were along the line of pre-6N selection was mid season so had limited number of EPS changes allowed to protect the clubs, and the full EPS selection and shake-up was end of season before summer tours (excluding special circumstances such as RWC).

If this process is still in action, does it explain why we see an imbalance of change across different positions.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As far as I'm aware that's still the case - this is the first squad after the RWC though, so they can make as many changes as they want.

 

[Nudger]

Was it against usa we played ludlum,underhill curry

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Was it against usa we played ludlum,underhill curry

Curry, Ludlam, Binny with Wilson on the bench

 

[LIONSxv]

I like the shape of the overall squad minus the somewhat stale selections at 9 and lack of an 8. I'm not sure what do what dombrant has done to Eddie. But he looks a perfect fit in that back row and offers an option in the lineout

 

[WarriorKelv]

Any Bath fans have strong opinions on Ewels? He's never struck me as particularly good at anything. Jones seems to rate him though so interested to learn what I'm missing.

No idea to be honest he has the lowest ceiling of any of the 6 locks that have gone. It absolutely amazes me how Isiekwe and Hill have missed out tbh. Add in Stooke, Ribbans would even have Kpoku for experience rather than Ewels. He is a back up player for me. Eddie for some reason likes him though but I don't really know what he has over those other players.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Any Bath fans have strong opinions on Ewels? He's never struck me as particularly good at anything. Jones seems to rate him though so interested to learn what I'm missing.

A guy I wouldn't be too concerned about having to be flown in as a last minute injury cover but not someone I think should be in the main team. Reasonably solid and no glaring weaknesses but nothing particularly stands out either.