[2020 Six Nations] England Squad

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Morale affects mental agility or mental strength. England are mentally weak and thus the dip in morale affected them.

Overall though the strongest, heaviest scrum doesn't mean the best.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Morale affects mental agility or mental strength. England are mentally weak and thus the dip in morale affected them.

Overall though the strongest, heaviest scrum doesn't mean the best.

A bit of a harsh oversimplification for me, you're talking about a team that got to a World Cup final, including trouncing the All Blacks en route, mentally weak teams don't do that.

More accurate to say they have one major mental frailty, which is they can't adequately respond to being put on the back foot. Problem solving and mental adaptability, as someone pointed out upthread.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Being part of a beaten pack is sh*t. I've played in plenty of games where I've been part of a pack that's being humped in the scrum and there isn't much you can do when you know that you're almost certainly giving away a penalty every time. Sometimes it's not even that obvious, but once a ref has made up his mind that your team is infringing, there's not much you can do about it. Either way it is a massive morale drain for the whole team, not just the forwards and I think we saw a bit of that in the RWC when it felt like every scrum was a foregone conclusion.

100% with your there. There's a massive ripple effect - at any level of the game.

Jason Leonard had a walk on but crucial role in the 03 final when our scrum got on the wrong side of the ref and was threatening the result. "Sir, you know me, I won't go up and I won't go down, but I will go forwards and backwards. You won't get any penalties out of me". "Thank you Jason". Leonard was as good as his word and Bill came home. Different era, but the principles hold good. Props who know their way around a scrum really are worth their, considerable, weight in gold.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

LCD out of the squad for family reasons, Singleton called up to replace - doesn't sound permanent but you never know with things like this.
Singleton being rewarded for his performances for Sarries.....ahem.....


In one week Dunn will be an internationally capped player. What a time to be alive.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Shame for LCD, but he's got his priorities right.

Not a position with a great deal of depth. Assume Singleton will just be holding tackle bags, anything else will be badly misguided loyalty.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Best thing about the Rugby World cup final is no matter how badly we do in the 6N's I can still say at least we got to the final.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Best thing about the Rugby World cup final is no matter how badly we do in the 6N's I can still say at least we got to the final.

Arrogant.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Arrogant.

Hell Yeah!

 

[Scotty]

Hell Yeah!

Own that ****!

 

[TommiG88]

It's annoying seeing an Englishman play so well for Wales

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

The team I'd go for next week (assuming EJ doesn't call anyone else into the squad):
1. Genge - upped the intensity massively when he came on and dominated the Welsh scrum.
2. George - just; would be tempted to give LCD a crack though as again, he looked better once he came on. George has a lot of credit still in the bank though.
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis - our best scrummager, our best lineout operator, our best carrier, our best lock. I don't care if he's potentially off to Japan, he needs to be involved. Ewels wasn't actively poor but he doesn't really offer anything at international level.
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Earl - not a fan of this as it blocks Hill from getting into the side as you can't really have 2 brand new internationals in the same back row, but we need an 8. After previously being an advocate for Curry at 8 I'll put my hands up and say that I was wrong - it did not work.
9. Heinz - if Youngs retains his place then it will be a major black mark against EJ's name for me.
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell - assuming Tuilagi is injured. If available then Farrell to the bench, Tuilagi to 12.
13. Joseph
14. Watson - assuming that he's fit. If not then Daly. I seem to be in the minority but I really don't think that Thorley is an international standard winger.
15. Furbank - I know he wasn't great today but I want to give him another chance. Anyone would've struggled making their debut in today's side.

16. LCD
17. Marler - Vunipola can't be trusted against international scrums.
18. Stuart
19. Ewels
20. Hill - Ludlam's just such a meh player to me. He's solid enough but the likes of Hill, Willis and Earl all have so much more potential. I just can't see him ever being a mainstay in the England team and so would rather not use up caps on him.
21. I'd rather we only had 7 subs than have Youngs in the 23.
22. Farrell - was awful today.
23. Daly - if Watson's unavailable then Thorley into this shirt.

 

[Scotty]

The team I'd go for next week (assuming EJ doesn't call anyone else into the squad):
1. Genge - upped the intensity massively when he came on and dominated the Welsh scrum.
2. George - just; would be tempted to give LCD a crack though as again, he looked better once he came on. George has a lot of credit still in the bank though.
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis - our best scrummager, our best lineout operator, our best carrier, our best lock. I don't care if he's potentially off to Japan, he needs to be involved. Ewels wasn't actively poor but he doesn't really offer anything at international level.
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Earl - not a fan of this as it blocks Hill from getting into the side as you can't really have 2 brand new internationals in the same back row, but we need an 8. After previously being an advocate for Curry at 8 I'll put my hands up and say that I was wrong - it did not work.
9. Heinz - if Youngs retains his place then it will be a major black mark against EJ's name for me.
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell - assuming Tuilagi is injured. If available then Farrell to the bench, Tuilagi to 12.
13. Joseph
14. Watson - assuming that he's fit. If not then Daly. I seem to be in the minority but I really don't think that Thorley is an international standard winger.
15. Furbank - I know he wasn't great today but I want to give him another chance. Anyone would've struggled making their debut in today's side.

16. LCD
17. Marler - Vunipola can't be trusted against international scrums.
18. Stuart
19. Ewels
20. Hill - Ludlam's just such a meh player to me. He's solid enough but the likes of Hill, Willis and Earl all have so much more potential. I just can't see him ever being a mainstay in the England team and so would rather not use up caps on him.
21. I'd rather we only had 7 subs than have Youngs in the 23.
22. Farrell - was awful today.
23. Daly - if Watson's unavailable then Thorley into this shirt.

Mako has been dealing with internstional scrums for years, but he doesnt get dominated all the time except against the best and is yhe best attacking prop. Today proved without billy we need go forward and mako would be be strong off the bench. Marler is a good scrummager and decent in defence but offers zero going forward

But pretty much agree with your team. Faz manu JJ sounds good if all fit. I dont care as long as curry is at 6 or 7 so he can play like a 7. And not be the main carrier in the team.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Mako has been dealing with internstional scrums for years, but he doesnt get dominated all the time except against the best and is yhe best attacking prop. Today proved without billy we need go forward and mako would be be strong off the bench. Marler is a good scrummager and decent in defence but offers zero going forward

But pretty much agree with your team. Faz manu JJ sounds good if all fit. I dont care as long as curry is at 6 or 7 so he can play like a 7. And not be the main carrier in the team.

I mean... okay, but what happens when we do come up against the best? Clearly it's not that simple to recognise a dominant scrum at international level or EJ never would have selected Mako in the final - he said so himself. So it's not like we can just swap Mako out for matches against the best scrummaging teams, and we can't exactly just wait for the game to happen to find out whether or not we'll be beaten as by then it's too late. If Mako can't hold his own against the best then he shouldn't be in the side. It's a props job to scrummage, not to be a prominent ball carrier. If we lack prominent ball carriers then that's a back row issue, not a prop issue.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

What is the point of Ewels? Doesn't add anything, we missed having Kruis in the team.

Lawes is definitely not a 6, we all know this apart from idiot Jones.

Pick a 10,12, 13 and stick with the style combo. We can't keep chopping and changing and then expect JJ to be Manu, stupid tactics!

Youngs needs to leave England entirely, just so one.

And lastly, please play a proper back row, we massively missed an 8 today.

I'd have

Genge
LCD
Sinkler
Kruis
Itoje
Underhill
Curry
Earl (what choice is there)
Heinz
Farrell
May
Devoto
JJ
Watson
Furbank

Today proved my point that Eddie is a poor selector, I really think any proper international coach could do better with the players we have, the problem is everyone compares Eddie to either Lancaster who wasn't an international coach, or Johnson, who wasnt an international coach.

Rant over.

 

[Scotty]

I mean... okay, but what happens when we do come up against the best? Clearly it's not that simple to recognise a dominant scrum at international level or EJ never would have selected Mako in the final - he said so himself. So it's not like we can just swap Mako out for matches against the best scrummaging teams, and we can't exactly just wait for the game to happen to find out whether or not we'll be beaten as by then it's too late. If Mako can't hold his own against the best then he shouldn't be in the side. It's a props job to scrummage, not to be a prominent ball carrier. If we lack prominent ball carriers then that's a back row issue, not a prop issue.

I do kind of disagree, not completely i understand you point but Mako for years has been great for England and not often dominated. I do think the other things matter. Mako has a high workrate, strong carrier and great ball handler. Along with sinks they are a strong combination. I want him on the bench for him to make an impact to the game and still hold his own at scrummaging, today marler held his own at scrummaging buy didnt dominate and didnt do alot more. The other stuff isnt more important but its bit daft to think it doesnt matter

 

[NickBD]

What is the point of Ewels? Doesn't add anything, we missed having Kruis in the team.

I agree with you on Ewels we both might be in minority on this one. He's a good player no doubt but he's 7th or 8th choice lock at this point even with Launchbury injured. Why Kruis didn't start is crazy to me.

But when you see Lawes at 6, no 8 and Youngs at 9 it wasn't even close to the worst call.

 

[Which Tyler]

I agree with you on Ewels we both might be in minority on this one.

Given that the closest anyone's come to defending him is "there were worse selection calls and worse performances in that match" I doubt that you're in a minority here.

There's simply no question that he's not in the top 4 English locks, then it's a matter of opinion, but the vast majority would have him behind Isiekwe for 5th choice, but in a battle with Stooke, Hill and Moon (and probably a few others) for 6th-8th. No disrespect to him, or any of the others, we've just got exceptional depth and talent at lock currently.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No EPS changes announced,
Unchanged 23 I reckon (if Tuilagi is crocked then Joseph will start and thorley bench)

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

No EPS changes announced,
Unchanged 23 I reckon (if Tuilagi is crocked then Joseph will start and thorley bench)

You can't improve on perfection

 

[Scotty]

If Watson is back then Furbank to 23 and watson to 14 with Daly to FB. I just hope for 3 back rowers and another in the 20 shirt is that too much to ask.

I hope the LHPs are Genge and Mako

Genge/Mako
George/LCD
Sinks/Stuart
Itoje
Kruis/lawes(or Ewels but i just dont think he has a high ceiling)
Ludlam
Underhill
Curry/Earl

Youngs/Heinz
Ford
May
Faz/devoto
JJ
Watson
Daly/Furbank.

Thats the best we can hope for... Daly will be FB if watson is fit. Curry will be No 8 as he is the most stubbern ******* ever. Just please dont let us have lawes in the back row as good as he is he isnt good at the breakdown.