[2020 Autumn Nations Cup] England vs France (06/12/20)

[Vieux Talonneur]

That selection is predictably disappointing. We're playing Fra B, surely we should have given 3 or 4 of the bench starting slots. Jones really has missed a trick this Autumn.

You look at the experience we have and there really should be no excuses for not playing well and racking up a decent score. Mind you I said that about the Wales game.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why are all the players in their actual positions?

 

[Jashay]

It's Jones' way of mixing things up

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Why are all the players in their actual positions?

Still got Daly at FB to spice things up.

 

[Goodey]

You would have to be a serious nitpicker to find major fault, it's a Tuilagi away from the world cup team.

I suppose you can consider it a missed chance to experiment but I don't really believe in that, it's a tournament final out there! Looking forward to it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You would have to be a serious nitpicker to find major fault, it's a Tuilagi away from the world cup team.

I suppose you can consider it a missed chance to experiment but I don't really believe in that, it's a tournament final out there! Looking forward to it.

Aye this is the happiest I've been with an England side this international series
We had perfect opportunity to experiment vs Italy/Georgia, but chose not to.
It might be the mickiest of Micky mouse cups but it's still a final, and we should go into it with that mindset

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You would have to be a serious nitpicker to find major fault, it's a Tuilagi away from the world cup team.

I suppose you can consider it a missed chance to experiment but I don't really believe in that, it's a tournament final out there! Looking forward to it.

Respect for your positive thinking. I just can't think of it that way and in their heart of hearts I doubt the players can either.

The French will have found out far more about their strength in depth and upcoming talent from this "tournament". Maybe more by cock up than anything else, but nonetheless they'll have learned a lot that will stand them in good stead when the more serious stuff comes around.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Bada-Bing!]

France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Alivereti Raka, 13 Yoram Moefana, 12 Jonathan Danty, 11 Gabin Villière, 10 Matthieu Jalibert, 9 Baptiste Couilloud (c), 8 Selevasio Tolofua, 7 Anthony Jelonch, 6 Cameron Woki, 5 Baptiste Pesenti, 4 Kilian Geraci, 3 Dorian Aldegheri, 2 Pierre Bourgarit, 1 Hassane Kolingar

Replacements: 16 Peato Mauvaka, 17 Rodrigue Neti, 18 Uini Atonio, 19 Guillaume Ducat, 20 Sekou Macalou, 21 Sébastien Bézy, 22 Louis Carbonel, 23 Pierre-Louis Barassi

 

[Goodey]

France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Alivereti Raka, 13 Yoram Moefana, 12 Jonathan Danty, 11 Gabin Villière, 10 Matthieu Jalibert, 9 Baptiste Couilloud (c), 8 Selevasio Tolofua, 7 Anthony Jelonch, 6 Cameron Woki, 5 Baptiste Pesenti, 4 Kilian Geraci, 3 Dorian Aldegheri, 2 Pierre Bourgarit, 1 Hassane Kolingar

Replacements: 16 Peato Mauvaka, 17 Rodrigue Neti, 18 Uini Atonio, 19 Guillaume Ducat, 20 Sekou Macalou, 21 Sébastien Bézy, 22 Louis Carbonel, 23 Pierre-Louis Barassi

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

We sometimes get bested up front, but rarely beaten up. On that day we were walloped and I think he's over reacted to that by overly concentrating on the physical and in some respects copying the SA game plan as a blue print to success.

My take on the final was that it was a very bad day at the office primarily down to having played our emotional final the week before. Jones making a couple of selection mistakes and Sinckler getting hurt early just made it a perfect storm.

Watson said in the Times today that there had been issues in training during final week. Unspecified, but something sounds like it was a little off. Maybe something that coach / captain should have stamped down on...we'll have to wait for the books.

A very bad day for sure. But before the final we were showing signs of coming together nicely as a team. Unlike some we have fundamentally the same group of players and it feels that our game has regressed rather than going forward.

Ignore results. Since spectacularly failing in our promise to bully France we have won everything. But these have virtually all been against teams in transition or 2nd tier.

Let's see what we look like when we do eventually play someone with its **** together and not at an embryonic stage of development.

I see what your saying and I agree with most of it, but I don't think Eddie sees the SA game as a blueprint so much as one way to play that's working at the moment. Eddie pirates ideas from all over the place, sometimes even from other rugby teams. There certainly is a feeling we're playing the SA way and Eddie did go out and get Proudfoot right after the final, so perhaps it's to be expected. After all, we've got an ex-Oz coach and an ex-ABs coach on the team already, why not complete the triumvirate and nick ideas from all three southern hemisphere giants. But I don't think Eddie has decided we should become the Boks of the north, if he did, he wouldn't have hired a 7s guy as attack coach. I think it's more a case that he wants to give his team lots of practice playing this way; I really have felt that England are on a training run this autumn. And winning is of course a very nice habit for a team to have, especially given how fragile England's psyche has been at times over the past two years. I fully expect them to change things up next year, Eddie is never one to sit still, that's why he's been so successful for so long.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

View attachment 8941

Yeh, I recognise 3 names in their team sheet. Hopefully give them a damn good licking.

 

[Nudger]

We sometimes get bested up front, but rarely beaten up. On that day we were walloped and I think he's over reacted to that by overly concentrating on the physical and in some respects copying the SA game plan as a blue print to success.

My take on the final was that it was a very bad day at the office primarily down to having played our emotional final the week before. Jones making a couple of selection mistakes and Sinckler getting hurt early just made it a perfect storm.

Watson said in the Times today that there had been issues in training during final week. Unspecified, but something sounds like it was a little off. Maybe something that coach / captain should have stamped down on...we'll have to wait for the books.

A very bad day for sure. But before the final we were showing signs of coming together nicely as a team. Unlike some we have fundamentally the same group of players and it feels that our game has regressed rather than going forward.

Ignore results. Since spectacularly failing in our promise to bully France we have won everything. But these have virtually all been against teams in transition or 2nd tier.

Let's see what we look like when we do eventually play someone with its **** together and not at an embryonic stage of development.

That's interesting.could that explain Spencer not being selected

 

[BPM]

Yeh, I recognise 3 names in their team sheet. Hopefully give them a damn good licking.

I wouldn't want to be that complacent. They have a good back row and Jalibert, Danty and Raka are all very dangerous backs too.

 

[TW27BA]

Not surprised with Eddies selection, but disappointed he hasn't used this series to give more time to fringe players and new caps. His treatment of Dunn was shocking. Playing Billy for every minute hasn't helped find another 8 to slot in when he is inevitably broken again. We know there are alternatives with Mark Wilson still to return and Dombrandt. Does Eddie see Earl as a 6 7 8 or a back?
A pity too that Robson, Malins, Marchant and Thorley have been sadly under used. I just don't see the point of giving a so called finisher a few token minutes at the end of what is a meaningless game in the grand scheme of things.

As for Sundays game, I only recognise a couple of the French players and the match has been relegated to a try out for the up and coming French players. England won't learn anything about the starting 15.
I wonder if Eddie sees the irony in that?

 

[Ferrari333SP]

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I wouldn't want to be that complacent. They have a good back row and Jalibert, Danty and Raka are all very dangerous backs too.

It's just a shame France aren't able to play their full strength sid. Still, make England favourites, but again France they are putting club rugby before country. It just devalues this game IMO, especially as it's a final.

 

[Reiser99]

It's just a shame France aren't able to play their full strength sid. Still, make England favourites, but again France they are putting club rugby before country. It just devalues this game IMO, especially as it's a final.

You're right but considering we're still in the middle of a pandemic and the schedule for the season is already messed up, I don't hold it against, players, clubs, unions making these tough choices. The tournament has already has had 3 games cancelled and it was kind of a rushed attempt at some international rugby after a long break. They could easily have just played some friendlies, but they decided to try and make it more interesting and competitive with a tournament format. For me I view these games as friendlies/warm ups etc... There are only bragging rights that you've won a competition that realistically is unlikely to be held again.

 

[BPM]

Let's face it, this tournament was only ever about the TV money.

No-one in rugby could have planned ahead for the impact pandemic and there's no doubt the money is 100% needed to partially compensate for losing the money from the cancelled AIs.

 

[Grizwald]

Are there going to be fans allowed at Twickenham tomorrow?