[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[curtbob7]

In defence of Coley. Playing alongside Vunipola doesn't help in the scrummaging department. Hartley isn't exactly pulling up trees here either and Jamie George doesn't hook!

No excuses for his penalties though although maybe you could say if we had a dominant second-row and breakdown-wise back row he wouldn't be there cocking up in the first place.

Considering he was an 8 at one point I am disappointed he doesn't carry more effectively.

Massively overused though. Needs a break.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

For the RWC I reckon it'll mostly be as is, maybe including T.Curry, Genge and Robson to the mix and losing Haskell, Hepburn and Wigglesworth.

Normally it's a 31 man squad? Can see

Looking at the thread of potential world cup squads, it's so hard to do one for England right now. A lot of players' futures are up in the air, but it would be too soon to know for sure whether they can turn it around.


Above all though I'm extremely surprised to see there are posters who still think Simmonds has an England future. I do think he's too small at this level and I was barely aware of him last weekend - questioning his workrate.
I'd like us to take a look at another 13 - I thought I was over Tuilagi, but perhaps not!
Danny Care, really? I don't see what he brings above Robson. 3rd choice at best.
I'd like us to bin 'untrustworthy' players - those who you can rely on to not compound an already bad situation when your'e under pressure. Take Joe Marler and that off the ball hit when he came on last weekend - we were already suffering from a lack of discipline and he made things worse. I'm inclined to feel the same way about Dan Cole to be honest.
I'm unfortunately not sold on Nathan (Hughes) at international level. I think we need to explore other options and fast, among which I would number Ewers (despite that he often plays 6), Beaumont, even Morgan.
At 10, I'm really struggling to accept that our number 3 and 4 choices are Loz and Smith - I really don't buy this garbage that Cipriani is either first choice or last choice - sometimes you need talent like that and the other 2 are not ready.

Tuilagi, Genge and a Curry bro to make the cut.

Cipriani will highly likely not be plying his trade in the AP for 18/19 season so that won't help his case. I doubt they'll invoke the exceptional circumstances clause for him. Further to that, even if they did he wouldn't be able to attend a decent England camps throughout the season so I wouldn't even entertain the idea that he makes a squad.

Dan Cole could well skip to 3rd choice, Marler also. I expect we would only take 5 props so potentially one of these drop out? I wouldn't write either off though, they're both class acts who are in a bad patch (moreso Cole).

Beaumont gets nowhere near an England 8 jersey for me. Ewers might but sense he won't get an opportunity. Hughes is a decent enough back up when fit.

 

[Fuzzy du Plessis]

I wouldn't have Cole in my 23 until he shows he's back to his old level but it's a touch unfair to expect scrum dominance with Mako on the other side. The last time they played against each other Cole gave him a proper pasting, resulting in a penalty try and Mako getting binned after half a dozen penalties.

He's England's best prop but he's so weak in the scrum that the TH should get credit for anything approaching parity.

 

[curtbob7]

The 1 shirt is massively up for the taking if Genge fancies it.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He's England's best prop but he's so weak in the scrum.

I've given you a like. But even in the modern game this is still a totally contradictory statement.

Best prop in the loose, definitely. Best prop, nope.

The 1 shirt is massively up for the taking if Genge fancies it.

Abso-flipping-lutely.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Do England have a prop who is equally comfortable playing both sides? Like Leonard was.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Do England have a prop who is equally comfortable playing both sides? Like Leonard was.

Does anyone?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Does anyone?

Only one I can think of is Tu'ungfasi in NZ.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think that kind of behaviour went our with the addition of the extra prop on the bench

 

[ratsapprentice]

Only one I can think of is Tu'ungfasi in NZ.

How often does he do that?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Mulipola

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

How often does he do that?

He's been spending most of his time recently at THP due to the departure of Faumaina both for the ABs and at the Blues, but he is equally adept at both. I know he's been capped on both sides for the ABs.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Think that kind of behaviour went our with the addition of the extra prop on the bench

Yep, it's just become custom. There's no real reason why many couldn't be at least competent on the other side. Having someone like Wilson in an RWC squad takes away a problem.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

With 5 props to be picked for the RWC squad having one that is comfortable on either side of the scrum would be useful. I know Cole has played loosehead during one of the 2013 Lions tour matches, which would enable two other specialist tightheads to be picked, as well as two looseheads. Obviously easier for a tighthead to switch to looshead, rather than the other way round.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yep, it's just become custom. There's no real reason why many couldn't be at least competent on the other side. Having someone like Wilson in an RWC squad takes away a problem.

Well there is, actually... because propping isn't really a completely even load, you'll develop strength unevenly.
Going from LH to TH is almost like trying to write with your other hand...

I don't see any reason to pick someone unless they truly are equally adept, and finding out if they are is easier said than done.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well there is, actually... because propping isn't really a completely even load, you'll develop strength unevenly.
Going from LH to TH is almost like trying to write with your other hand.

It's all about technique. I don't think you'd ever get many who were equally as good on both sides, but with practice many could be excellent on one and competent enough to be a bench / emergency option on the other.

At a much lower level, I was exclusively a TH at school / early club. Then dabbled a bit at LH - always preferred and felt more natural at TH - but fairly quickly got to a roughly comparable standard. Then eventually saw the light and plonked myself in the middle. They are v different, but so's FH and IC. Anything's alien until you properly try it.

One advantage is that if you've worn 1, you're more alive to what the opponent is trying to do to you when you've got 3 on your back.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's not all about technique though.

But the real point is that you need to play both regularly in order to be good at both.
It's not really worth anyone's time to put effort into being good at both... that's why we turned to specialists.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

But the real point is that you need to play both regularly in order to be good at both.

That we do agree on.

It's not really worth anyone's time to put effort into being good at both... that's why we turned to specialists.

At what age are players specialising? My gut feel is that it's too young. Broadening that out, Aussie backs particularly spring to mind as often seeming comfortable in multiple positions. Should we be more concerned with developing all round skills and not worrying about the number on the back til a much later stage?

It's not necessarily a natural extension that the position you're best suited for at 16 will be the same at 26. Of all the team sports you see cricketers' roles continually evolving over time, in individual sports like athletics, swimming or cycling, you're forever seeing athletes switch to disciplines that require different skills or fitness attributes. Are we too quick to pigeon hole in rugby?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm specifically talking about elite props, not generally.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't pay much attention to U18s rugby but I do keep an eye out for when Chiefs name their team and it looks like at that level at least the props are still comfortable on either side of the scrum. Don't know if that goes for all sides but looks to me like whether a prop is a LHP or THP is decided fairly late on in their youth development.