[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[Bada-Bing!]

I think the point of pressure is the point. Doing it front of 15-20 odd thousand is one thing, doing it in front of 82000 at Twickers and when on for only 20 or so minutes as a sub when LCD knows he has to make an impression is another.

 

[NDC89]

Got to be worth giving him a shot in the summer and Autumn. With George starting.... Go on Eddie, you know you want to!

That would be a very dynamic pair of hookers.

 

[Chief Pete]

I think the point at pressure is the point. Doing it front of 15-20 odd thousand is one thing, doing it in front of 82000 at Twickers and when on for only 20 or so minutes as a sub when LCD knows he has to make an impression is another.

The only way he'd get used to that was to give him a run instead of taking him out, yes I'm biased but he offers so much more than Hartley and him coming on along with say Genge and Sinkler for 20 - 30 mins would be dynamic, he's probably going to go to the WC as 3rd choice albeit a little undercooked at that level...

 

[higgik]

Brown is the safe option, as seen when he went off yesterday, when Watson and May collided going for the high ball. No communication, but when Daly comes back he may be the one to replace Brown, with Nowell and Watson on wings.
For France, I wouldn't see many changes as they base their game on power and not pace, which suits the current set up. They are also not as fit and so the finishers will have more room.
Having said that, I would swap Wigglesworth with Care as control and a good kicking game needed at beginning.
15. Brown
14. Nowell
13. Joseph (last chance in my opinion, looks like he is trying too hard)
12. Te'o (to counter Bastereud who looked good on Friday)
11. Watson
10. Farrell (agree not as good as Ford in attack, but we need to go back to old style, play for corners, attacking bombs and run the French ragged for a hour)
9. Wigglesworth (kicking game and direction of forwards better, would make sure forwarded were not isolated)
1. Vunipola
2. Hartley (needs to up the ante in the aggression stake, he looks like the obsession with being good has tilted too far now)
3. Williams (Cole washed up and looking tired of international rugby)
4. Launchbury (gives the go forward but needs more support)
5. Lawes (Itoje has not got the close quarter power from a standing start, Lawes should be given a simple game plan and told to do his 'silent assassin' mode, which is far better than 'angry Courtney' mode)
6. Itoje (this will release him further out, where he can use leg speed to break tackles)
7. Underhill (more power than Robshaw)
8. Hughes (looked good in bits, lacked general match fitness, but will be better in 2 weeks)

Finishers
16. George (better player but he is far better as a finisher than Hartley)
17. ?? Exeter prop can't remember name
18. Sinckler (again would be a great finisher)
19. Kruis
20. Haskell (keeps the aggression levels high when Hartley comes off)
21. Care
22. Ford
23. May
Last 3 will be able to find loads of space when the French tire in last quarter.

 

[FLOBALOB]

The only way he'd get used to that was to give him a run instead of taking him out, yes I'm biased but he offers so much more than Hartley and him coming on along with say Genge and Sinkler for 20 - 30 mins would be dynamic, he's probably going to go to the WC as 3rd choice albeit a little undercooked at that level...

Genge, LCD and Sinckler- thats a front row worth watching.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The only way he'd get used to that was to give him a run instead of taking him out, yes I'm biased but he offers so much more than Hartley and him coming on along with say Genge and Sinkler for 20 - 30 mins would be dynamic, he's probably going to go to the WC as 3rd choice albeit a little undercooked at that level...

Seriously undercooked.

Does anyone know average caps our current squad has? Considering the 2003 RWC winning one had an average of just under 46 caps. http://the1014.com/how-to-win-rugby-world-cup/

 

[Chief Pete]

Genge, LCD and Sinckler- thats a front row worth watching.

I think so and factor in possibly Lawes and Hughes being the other forward replacements and that's potentially some serious impact, yesterday highlighted problems but I think the solution's are there...

 

[Chief Pete]

Seriously undercooked.

Yep you got me there, hopefully he'll get a run before the WC...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think the point of pressure is the point. Doing it front of 15-20 odd thousand is one thing, doing it in front of 82000 at Twickers and when on for only 20 or so minutes as a sub when LCD knows he has to make an impression is another.

TBH if we can be convinced of his darts i'd have him ahead of George. He seems more dynamic and aggressive.

Taylor's due back from injury soon. Could he make a late run?

 

[TW27BA]

E.J desperately needs to get a settled backline sooner than later. When everyone is fit, Billy is a banker with Hughes as backup, but 6 and 7 are still undecided. He is running out of games to experiment and his reluctance to drop Robshaw is hurting us. Playing Lawes at 6 isn't working either. Underhill needs a run at 6, Simmonds /Curry's at 7. Why Hask is still being mentioned is strange to me. Sorry, but his time is up.
Also, a 3rd scrum half needs blooding quickly, unless, God forbid he has Wiggles in mind.

In a perverse way, England's loss yesterday did Eddie, and England a favour. A win would have papered over the obvious cracks many contributors here have mentioned. His team to face France should give us an idea if he intends to address the shortcomings.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Call up Bateman IMO before the welsh do.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Call up Bateman IMO before the welsh do.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Seriously undercooked.

Does anyone know average caps our current squad has? Considering the 2003 RWC winning one had an average of just under 46 caps. http://the1014.com/how-to-win-rugby-world-cup/

I think the problem is looking at caps as just a number. Many of those players got that many caps because they earned all of them. They were better than the alternatives so kept getting selected. Sure they may have had some ups and downs but were consistently the best or close to the best. This is not what is currently happening with England where we are handing out caps to players because they are our most capped players, not because they are superior to the alternatives. Throwing an extra 20 caps at a decent 50 cap player will not make him a great 70 cap player but throwing 20 caps at a potentially excellent newbie could produce an excellent 20 cap player. Look at Itoje as an example, how many caps did it take for him to be a first team choice? Excellent players do not need many caps to prove themselves and if by 50 caps you aren't excellent, you never will be.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Call up Bateman IMO before the welsh do.

Yeah, nah....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Him and Genge are gonna win us the World cup.

Yeah, nah....

Earle is awesome. Which is why it was mental that a guy like Mike Ellery was playing ahead of him.
He's one of the most outstanding outside backs we've had at age grade, up there with the likes of Watson and Nowell.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Don't start this... you big up all the shitty, should-have-been-aborted southern hemisphere mediocrites that your has been club signs.... you don't want that **** brought up.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Don't start this... you big up all the shitty, should-have-been-aborted southern hemisphere mediocrites that your has been club signs.... you don't want that **** brought up.

I'll have you know Brendan O'Connor was MOTM today (Which reminds me Brendan O'Connor for England) and your precious Earle.... well 6 missed tackles 2 botch tries, so lets just say he played in the game shall we.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think the problem is looking at caps as just a number. Many of those players got that many caps because they earned all of them. They were better than the alternatives so kept getting selected. Sure they may have had some ups and downs but were consistently the best or close to the best. This is not what is currently happening with England where we are handing out caps to players because they are our most capped players, not because they are superior to the alternatives. Throwing an extra 20 caps at a decent 50 cap player will not make him a great 70 cap player but throwing 20 caps at a potentially excellent newbie could produce an excellent 20 cap player. Look at Itoje as an example, how many caps did it take for him to be a first team choice? Excellent players do not need many caps to prove themselves and if by 50 caps you aren't excellent, you never will be.

Yes, I get your point, but it is also a fact that an experienced team with caps has won the 5 world cups. As the link points out how many caps and years of test match experience did Sam Whitelock have when he won with NZ in 2011? Or Steve Thompson before 2003. Not many, but they were surrounded by players who did have a lot of caps and were world class. Right now Jones could drop Cole, Hartley, Robshaw, Brown. And let's face it none of them are world class, but it does mean replacing them with players who are likely to be world class and surround them with experienced players. Those experienced players are the likes of Hartley, Cole, Robshaw and Brown.

It may be the case that 2019 will be too soon for even this squad of players looking at this far out.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Eddie is going to fall into the same problem Lancaster did with Robshaw if he isn't careful by not rotating more positions.

Really hope in SA he gives some of the lions a rest Mako and cole especially after the lions tour and we know what they can do.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yes, I get your point, but it is also a fact that an experienced team with caps has won the 5 world cups. As the link points out how many caps and years of test match experience did Sam Whitelock have when he won with NZ in 2011? Or Steve Thompson before 2003. Not many, but they were surrounded by players who did have a lot of caps and were world class. Right now Jones could drop Cole, Hartley, Robshaw, Brown. But Let's face it none of them are world class, but it does mean replacing them with players who are likely to be world class and surround them with experienced players. Those experienced players are the likes of Hartley, Cole, Robshaw and Brown.

It may be the case that 2019 will be too soon for even this squad of players looking at this far out.

This is a dilemma of Jones making. But there's sufficient experience in the squad to ease 2 or 3 new guys in.

In addition to those 4, Mako's closing in on 50. Launch, Lawes and Faz are already there. Care's on 79, Youngs 74, Ford's over 40, JJ, May and Binny each over 30.

There were a number of players in Eng 03 and NZ 15 who were hugely experienced and while probably past their absolute best were still massively influential and worth their place - Nonu, McCaw, Johnson, Back etc. If Hartley, Cole, Robshaw and Brown ever were that influential they're not now and that's the problem.