[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 2: Argentina v South Africa (25/08/2018)

[All Black]

I have to becareful with what Im about to ask here and I mean no racism at all.

Is the quota restricting the Boks from selecting their best team?

 

[SomeOke]

I have to becareful with what Im about to ask here and I mean no racism at all.

Is the quota restricting the Boks from selecting their best team?

Maybe but I don't think that's why we lost. Players just didn't perform, and the tactics were head scratching. At the same time our forwards were at best keeping pace with the Argies and Willie and Pollard both failed to control the game half as well as Sanchez. Hopefully it's just a blip, but Im used to these kind of performances at the moment.

 

[All Black]

Maybe but I don't think that's why we lost. Players just didn't perform, and the tactics were head scratching. At the same time our forwards were at best keeping pace with the Argies and Willie and Pollard both failed to control the game half as well as Sanchez. Hopefully it's just a blip, but Im used to these kind of performances at the moment.

Thank you for your response first and foremost.

Now I do not mean to be racist at all but the good Bok teams in the past had more white players than black players. If the best players are all yellow, so what, pick them because thats the best. Who cares if the white and black South Africans get ****** off, you got to pick the best. The quota could be whats killing the Boks rugby.

 

[SomeOke]

Thank you for your response first and foremost.

Now I do not mean to be racist at all but the good Bok teams in the past had more white players than black players. If the best players are all yellow, so what, pick them because thats the best. Who cares if the white and black South Africans get ****** off, you got to pick the best. The quota could be whats killing the Boks rugby.

I think it's a lot more complicated than that, if quota's are affecting us I personally believe it's a very small margin.

After all this team is the same team that beat the Argies last week, so selection can't really be the main factor.

 

[mdaclarke]

I wonder if the players playing in France is an issue (the non availability of them) players like Frans Steyn, Bismark and Serfontein.

 

[SomeOke]

I just think we need to be realistic about where we are as a team, it's a brand new back line filled with players who have 10 caps or less with an average age of about 23. We are heavily reliant on a few superstars to really elevate our performances (Marx/Willie/Faf/Vermulen) and when they don't pitch up we just look ordinary. Add to the fact that the Argies delivered a really good performance and the loss makes a lot of sense.
I also think we kicked too much ball away and allowed ourselves to get ruffled particularly in the first half.

Let's just be absolutely honest with ourselves and come to terms with the fact that we aren't a top tier nation at the moment and we have next to no chance of winning the 2019 world cup.
That said it is a young team with a lot of potential and the vast majority of our personnel will still be around for 2023 so that's really a more realistic goal.

In the mean time try not to be too down on the team, hopefully we can still get redemption in this RC, Aus losing to Argentina at home as well would also make me feel better .

 

[mdaclarke]

I don't think the slow starts help. Every match the Boks allow the team a lead. Then almost without fail they pull back. If only the 2nd half scores counted the Boks would be the best team in the world!! I don't get it.

 

[All Black]

Our team tends to hold onto a core group of experienced players. McCaw, Carter and Nonu stayed in NZ for 2 world cups at the least so we could draw on their experience and leadership in tough times. Woodwards english team had Wilkinson, Dallaglio and Johnson. The Boks 2007 RWC squad had John Smit, Percy Montgomery and Victor Matfield. Right now we have Reid, Ben Smith, Sam Cane, Rettalick and Sonny Bill that makes up that experienced group. Boks might be missing a bit of old heads to give them that direction.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Our team tends to hold onto a core group of experienced players. McCaw, Carter and Nonu stayed in NZ for 2 world cups at the least so we could draw on their experience and leadership in tough times. Woodwards english team had Wilkinson, Dallaglio and Johnson. The Boks 2007 RWC squad had John Smit, Percy Montgomery and Victor Matfield. Right now we have Reid, Ben Smith, Sam Cane, Rettalick and Sonny Bill that makes up that experienced group. Boks might be missing a bit of old heads to give them that direction.

You have more than that don't you? Franks and Whitelock are both centurions.

 

[All Black]

You have more than that don't you? Franks and Whitelock are both centurions.

Oh true, yes. They've probably played more tests than some of the ones I mentioned.

 

[Ospervat]

I have to becareful with what Im about to ask here and I mean no racism at all.

Is the quota restricting the Boks from selecting their best team?

I have to becareful with what Im about to say here and I mean no racism at all.

"Yes."

Quotas doesn't just apply to players selected. It applies to every aspect at every level of SARU.

SARU is a shining example of how discrimination implemented by a currupt state will erode competitive performance over a sustained period.

 

[mdaclarke]

I have to becareful with what Im about to say here and I mean no racism at all.

"Yes."

Quotas doesn't just apply to players selected. It applies to every aspect at every level of SARU.

SARU is a shining example of how discrimination implemented by a currupt state will erode competitive performance over a sustained period.

This topic has been done to death, but I agree and am amazed that the IRB/IOC are so limp wristed about it.

Destroying South African Rugby will do as much good for the day to day lives of ordinary South Africans as destroying Zimbabwean cricket improved the day to day lives of ordinary Zimbabweans.

I'm watching the Top 14 game between Montpellier and Castres. Amazed by how many South Africans are playing (especially for Montpellier, surely players like Johann Goosen and Bismark can do a job for the Boks.

 

[All Black]

A few years back, I thought the Boks were just going through a small phase when they started losing a lot more games than usual. Losing to Argentina (with all respect) tells me that they're still yet to return to their old winning ways. You start to wonder, is it the quota or could it be because the South African players don't play the kiwi and aussie players as often as they use to due to the new conferences format in Super Rugby. Are they just losing their experienced players and players just leaving the country for the money over the jersey. Having a lot of actual reasons to pick from shows that a lots going on over there, lots to deal with.

The Pumas, on the other hand, have improved since their inclusion to form the RC. Thats always going to happen when you're regularly playing top level opposition. Maybe the Boks have improved and that, both them and the Argentinians, are on a new level. We will find out soon as we have the Pumas next.

 

[FNS]

Last week i told you in the other topic, you did not play well, we are just bad, dont get confy. You did that i think.

PS. We are Sanchez + 14.

 

[Ridzenieks]

An NZ supporter, but feel motivated to express good will for South African rugby. There are a number of us from earlier generations who rate the AB/ SA rivalry as the pinnacle of the great international rugby pyramid. I am dismayed that the national ranking is so low, and want to respect and fear the great Bokke again. By analogy with other organisations, businesses for example, there cannot be a successful mode of operation if the stakeholders are opposed. The SA government seems antagonistic to the sport, and dissatisfied with some aspects of it. if I were an investor, I would want to know how strong is the board of directors. How clear is their vision, how well managed is the infrastructure.

 

[mdaclarke]

I still think the Boks are a good side. I think in the long run they will be the 2nd best side in the World after the All Blacks. They have too much natural talent.

 

[bjarg]

Pumas are also affected by the restriction they put on players playing in europe.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Guys, can we please stay on topic. If you want to talk about the quota system there are more than enough threads on the forum for that.


Back to the game. This was the worse performance yet under Rassie, and to make it even worse, it was our first away game under his reign, so I hope this isn't going to be a trend. Everyone played poorly, except PSDT and Wilco Louw when they came on, and perhaps RG Snyman.

Pollard seems to have the yips with his kicking at goal, and it even looked like it was starting to affect his general play. But what I don't understand about our tactics was why were we playing more off 9 than 10? We had so many pods run off Faf, that it became somewhat predictable, and that helped the Argies a lot with getting the turnovers.

Our defence was the most shocking, and it was as if our guys wasn't comitted this week. And Mapoe as a winger was terrible on defence, between him and Am, there were too many gaps, and when they got close to the attacking player, they just missed the tackles.

Our discipline was absolutely atrocious! And I hope Rassie and his team gets this right before we travel to Australia and NZ.

Etzebeth, as great as he was last week, was the biggest let-down form me this week. How can you go from playing so great the one week, to being so crap the following week? That's not a form issue, that's an attitude issue.

One thing that I just didn't understand was why did Gardner give Etzebeth a yellow so quickly, but was reluctant to give one to Matera? In instance alone, Matera fouled like 3 times, but then Gardner just kept on giving advantage and then when we got the penalty, he just went to talk to Creevy and said this is a warning. I don't see the consistency in this instance.

But other than that I thought Gardner had a really good game officiating.

We were our own worst enemies. When we we were attacking, we lost the ball, or ran into touch, there was little to no creativity. And Aphiwe Dyanthi needs to figure out when to step and when to run, as it's becoming way too easy for the opposition to read him.

 

[petite]

Last week i told you in the other topic, you did not play well, we are just bad, dont get confy. You did that i think.

PS. We are Sanchez + 14.

come on man it was more than that. lots of the pumas players did good, figallo and creevy, petti, matera delguy and even bonfelli did good jobs
lavanini moyano and moroni had goods and not so goods but did well,
nobody is sayng that argentina has improved. we did a decent match in SA We where wining thou the fist halve. before chocking in the second.
and we did it again in mendoza. its true that SA under performed but so they did in Sa last week. the differece was that this time los pumas where able to actualy score out of those mistakes. where we lately faild.
that is what it takes to beat SA a good day for us and a bad game for them. just remember that foward pass it was cm from a try that could have chaneged the result.
it didnt happen.
lets remember that all SA super rugby teams lost this season in bs as and then this win will come as no surprise.
what i mean is that loosing an away game to los pumas doesent sink the springbocks in shame or great crisis. i wont be surprised if they beat the AB at home. and predict wins over australia.

 

[mdaclarke]

come on man it was more than that. lots of the pumas players did good, figallo and creevy, petti, matera delguy and even bonfelli did good jobs
lavanini moyano and moroni had goods and not so goods but did well,
nobody is sayng that argentina has improved. we did a decent match in SA We where wining thou the fist halve. before chocking in the second.
and we did it again in mendoza. its true that SA under performed but so they did in Sa last week. the differece was that this time los pumas where able to actualy score out of those mistakes. where we lately faild.
that is what it takes to beat SA a good day for us and a bad game for them. just remember that foward pass it was cm from a try that could have chaneged the result.
it didnt happen.
lets remember that all SA super rugby teams lost this season in bs as and then this win will come as no surprise.
what i mean is that loosing an away game to los pumas doesent sink the springbocks in shame or great crisis. i wont be surprised if they beat the AB at home. and predict wins over australia.

I agree with this, I think the Boks are a better team than the Wallabies and should give the All Blacks a good game. I also think the Pumas may be the Wallabies at home.