[2018 November Tests] France vs South Africa (10/11/18)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Stade de France
Time: 22:05 CAT (SA, GMT+2)
​

Teams

France: 15 Maxime Medard, 14 Teddy Thomas, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Geoffrey Doumayrou, 11 Damian Penaud, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Baptiste Serin, 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Arthur Iturria, 6 Wenceslas Lauret, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 3 Cedate Gomes Sa, 2 Guilhem Guirado (captain), 1 Jefferson Poirot

Substitutes: 16 Camille Chat, 17 Dany Priso, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Paul Gabrillagues, 20 Mathieu Babillot, 21 Antoine Dupont, 22 Anthony Belleau, 23 Gael Fickou

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 S'bu Nkosi, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Aphiwe Dyantyi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Duane Vermeulen, 6 Siya Kolisi (captain), 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Francois Louw, 21 Embrose Papier, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Cheslin Kolbe

 

[User1245]

So obviously Faf is back in the mix which will make a big difference. Papier needs to replace van Zyl on the bench. The dude hasn't had a proper crack yet and it's clear we have a depth issue at 9.

If Marx misses a single lineout throw Bongi needs to be brought on. He doesn't seem to recover if he's having an off day.

 

[SomeOke]

In van Zyl's defense he actually impressed me agaisnt England, yes he doesn't bring Faf's fire in defense or offer much of a running game, but his kicks were for the most part pretty good (contestable) and his passing game was fairly smooth, especially when we already had momentum.

No reason to change the team much I reckon, just bring in Willie and Faf, a replacement for Eben if necessary (Mostert preferably) and call it a day.
Our worst players on the park last weekend were Siya and Marx but they are both pretty important to our cause ordinarily so we can't drop them yet.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So obviously Faf is back in the mix which will make a big difference. Papier needs to replace van Zyl on the bench. The dude hasn't had a proper crack yet and it's clear we have a depth issue at 9.

If Marx misses a single lineout throw Bongi needs to be brought on. He doesn't seem to recover if he's having an off day.

Not just Faf...

Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Franco Mostert, Francois Louw and Vincent Koch have all joined the group.

In van Zyl's defense he actually impressed me agaisnt England, yes he doesn't bring Faf's fire in defense or offer much of a running game, but his kicks were for the most part pretty good (contestable) and his passing game was fairly smooth, especially when we already had momentum.

No reason to change the team much I reckon, just bring in Willie and Faf, a replacement for Eben if necessary (Mostert preferably) and call it a day.
Our worst players on the park last weekend were Siya and Marx but they are both pretty important to our cause ordinarily so we can't drop them yet.

I think our balance in the loose forwards wasn't right in the England game. In fact I didn't even know Kolisi was on the field.

 

[unrated]

Wait... I thought there was an agreement with the Sale Sharks that Faf would sit out the November internationals???


Whiteley had a good game, and as a coach you could not really fault him., but I think Vermeulen needs to move to 8.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Not just Faf...

Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Franco Mostert, Francois Louw and Vincent Koch have all joined the group.



I think our balance in the loose forwards wasn't right in the England game. In fact I didn't even know Kolisi was on the field.

Thor didn't look great as a flanker and Whitely was meh at 8 for me.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Thor didn't look great as a flanker and Whitely was meh at 8 for me.

Whiteley was less than meh for me, apart from that one run when Dyanthi tapped back a ball from a kick, he didn't do much to impress me. Duane did the better of the 3 but wasn't as influential as he usually was, when he went to 8 in the second half, things went a bit better for him.

 

[George Ford]

While redemption is on the cards for this one, it's the right kind of reaction that is warranted. I believe team selection isn't actually of the quandary as a lot of these contentious decisions might not even come to the fore in the game.

The response in the post-match presser (from Siya) suggests the belief that the decisions made in that dominant period weren't wrong and that it was just the execution that was lacking (throw-ins missed, etc.). Similar sentiments expressed by Rassie in his frustration that we failed to capitalize on opportunities created shows where our focus lies.

It is a clear indication of our gameplan in that we believe we are able to put opposition teams under severe pressure and we usually do in the 1st quarter or so and that it's (still) only our execution letting us down. It boils down to how we convert this pressure into points, whether by opting for a line-out or a kick for posts.

We have great goalkickers and I think we should let them do the talking up front when the opportunities arise. It allows our forwards to catch their breathe in that instance and thus prolongs their energy for a longer period in the half.

This is test rugby, we shouldn't forget that.

 

[unrated]

I felt Siya or whoever was actually making the calls in the England game failed us.
We need to kick for posts every time we are in range, its arrogant to go for the line out if we are only in front by 2 or 3. Keep the scoreboard ticking.

The people who i watched this game with cheered everytime we opted for the linout. This isnt barbarian rugby its test matches and have they forgotten the saying "always take the points"

Thats why Matfield and Smith was great captains they knew how to play the game after years playing rugby. Experience counts heavily for the Captain. we cant afford for Siya to only learn this in his 30s. If its not Siya making these calls we should ask why our captain is not making them.

 

[SomeOke]

I think our balance in the loose forwards wasn't right in the England game. In fact I didn't even know Kolisi was on the field.

Kolisi had an absolute shocker, I think he really doesn't suit tight games like this, bit of a worry.
He made 2 runs for 0 meters and 6 tackles with 2 missed tackles, not great - hopefully he just had an off day.
Whiteley did what he usually does which is the grunt work, most tackles in our team with 14.

Our backline actually looked fine when they had any sort of opportunity (mostly in the first half) both our wingers are really coming along, Pollard and DDA were good, Willemse had a quiet game but apart from one ball kicked out on the full was pretty solid in general and had one run where he really showed what he is capable of.

Honestly the only reason we lost the game is we failed to execute on our attacking opportunities, we got 14/18 line outs but all 4 of those failed line outs were on the five meter line (I'm OK with kicking for the corner, but not if we can't win a line out) and we definitely knocked the ball on in critical areas one to many times. I don't think they were necessarily the better team, we just crumbled under pressure while they were composed.

 

[ncurd]

I felt Siya or whoever was actually making the calls in the England game failed us.
We need to kick for posts every time we are in range, its arrogant to go for the line out if we are only in front by 2 or 3. Keep the scoreboard ticking.

The people who i watched this game with cheered everytime we opted for the linout. This isnt barbarian rugby its test matches and have they forgotten the saying "always take the points"

This is entirely why you 'lost' the game overall. Being that dominant in the first half, the other team going a man down and you scoring zero points to their three. Its utterly criminal, England still easially clinging on after the first half was probably a huge reason why they came back fighting in the second.

Also drop goals, considering you watched the ABs screw that one up why the damn hell did you make the same mistake.

You may have ultimately lost the game on a decision but you should never of been in that position to begin with.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Siya's a relatively inexperienced captain. I am surprised Vermeulen or Eben didn't have a quiet word in his ear to go for the scrum when Maro was in the bin for 10, or kick for goal. Decision making under pressure in the test environment is so important at this level.

 

[ncurd]

Siya's a relatively inexperienced captain. I am surprised Vermeulen or Eben didn't have a quiet word in his ear to go for the scrum when Maro was in the bin for 10, or kick for goal. Decision making under pressure in the test environment is so important at this level.

And its a typical 'new captain' mistake. You need a converted try strike rate from the corner of better than 33% to beat a 77% kicker in terms of points (numbers may be a bit wonky). I'd be surprised if any team manages it, kicking to the corner in test match rugby is foolish.

I think scrums may have been equally stupid.

Hopefully Siya will learn but its important he does, Robshaw didn't and we ended up going out at the group stages of a home world cup because of it.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Scrums were going so well at the time for SA you could have seen a yellow card for England coming if there was repeat infringement. But I agree about not taking the points, it's the first half and they were kickable, there was no need to go chasing tries in that situation.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

At that point I thought SA had the upper hand in the scrums as well. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but yes build the 3 pointers first at test level, get the opposition to chase the scoreboard, then go for tries when the game is more open.

 

[ncurd]

I think you'll surprised when the chips are our down like that how often a defending scrum either wins a penalty from the attacking team trying to force it too much or just keeping to get it together enough to force them to use it.

Playing for repeat penalties in the scrum doesn't work often as it did a few years back. Ref's tend to not look favorable on teams playing for penalties and not using the ball if available you'll see the put in reversed.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Yeah I agree it's all in hindsight, if one of the lineouts worked, Kolisi would be praised for his positive decision.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think you'll surprised when the chips are our down like that how often a defending scrum either wins a penalty from the attacking team trying to force it too much or just keeping to get it together enough to force them to use it.

Playing for repeat penalties in the scrum doesn't work often as it did a few years back. Ref's tend to not look favorable on teams playing for penalties and not using the ball if available you'll see the put in reversed.

I was thinking more of tying in England's 7 men (was any back taken off to be replaced by Ewels? I can't remember) at that point and getting closer to the line for a try or an easier penalty closer to the posts. Rather than go for scrum penalties. The whole crooked feed thing now really favours the attacking scrum to get the ball out and away. Well it should.

 

[Oliver Madden]

France 15 South Africa 38.

 

[unrated]

France 15 South Africa 38.

I see what you did there!