[2018 November Tests] England v South Africa (3/10/18)

[Reiser99]

Yeah but Gardner initially did not call it a penalty as that was a normal tackle hes seen many times before down here. He was tipped by someone to review it. I think it was a sideline official.

I found it annoying because it was a beautiful tackle and that killed it a little. Farrell should of been celebrating the win after that hit.

I think it was either Ben Whitehouse (Welsh) who is not the best ref if said politely or the TMO who was Irish. IMO I felt it needed looking at for where the contact was made, not for the tackle itself. If he had made contact with the head then it would have been a red regardless of trying of trying to wrap the arms by the letter of the law.

 

[Nubiwan]

Farrell gives away nearly 5 inches and 15 kgs to Eterhuizen. That's got to hurt a big forwards pride to be stopped in his tracks like that. He might get some personal ridicule from his pack for getting bloused by a back. Still, Farrell is no slouch dishing out the tackles. I honestly thought it was going to be a pen. I thought Pollard would miss anyway from that far out. At least, that's what was going through my mind as they did the TMO charade.

I actually thought the ref dodgy in the first half, particularly in favour of SA. Was surprised he took the action he did, and then it crossed my mind he might have taken a huge step toward reffing the next World Cup final today. Assuming Australia don't make the final. Anyone else? It might be worth a dip. Last thing on his mind was wanting to pi55 off 80 odd thousand at Twickenham. Or was it......

As for the tackle or not, it occurred to me that it was a big man on little man, and the little man rather came out on top. So fair enough.

 

[Nubiwan]

I think Ben Youngs can probably add another 15 or 20 yard distance to his box kicks. That way at least the ABs will start their counter attacks from deeper positions.

Amen that man suggested Care was an upgrade today.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think it was a sideline official.

Welsh touch judge and Irish TMO, the biased bar-stewards.



Jokes.

NH refereeing is far stricter on illegal shots it seems - especially with the new directives coming in this season. If it was a NH referee with the whistle I think he'd have penalised.

 

[User1245]

Farrell gives away nearly 5 inches and 15 kgs to Eterhuizen. That's got to hurt a big forwards pride to be stopped in his tracks like that. He might get some personal ridicule from his pack for getting bloused by a back. Still, Farrell is no slouch dishing out the tackles. I honestly thought it was going to be a pen. I thought Pollard would miss anyway from that far out. At least, that's what was going through my mind as they did the TMO charade.

I actually thought the ref dodgy in the first half, particularly in favour of SA. Was surprised he took the action he did, and then it crossed my mind he might have taken a huge step toward reffing the next World Cup final today. Assuming Australia don't make the final. Anyone else? It might be worth a dip. Last thing on his mind was wanting to pi55 off 80 odd thousand at Twickenham. Or was it......

As for the tackle or not, it occurred to me that it was a big man on little man, and the little man rather came out on top. So fair enough.

Esterhuizen is an inside centre

 

[ncurd]

If it was a NH referee with the whistle I think he'd have penalised.

Another factor may have been it potentially changing the result of the match with no chance for England to respond to it. Not wanting to make a call like that unless he was certain it should be a penalty.

I think the issue actually stems from a different problem in how we manage full time. Essentially a attacking team less than 7 points behind should not be allowed to just retain the ball until the opposing side commits an infraction. I do think there should be a limit of phases at the 40 and 80 min mark. Would Farrell have gone in as hard if he wasn't trying to force the situation? Not to mention other times where games have carried on way too long. Often to complete an ineffective attack.

 

[ncurd]

Oh yeah and whoever said the SAffers only get up to play the ABs what utter drivel. Sure the ABs are their biggest rivals but they did maintain an undefeated record for nearly a decade against us by not caring about playing us. The ABs had a worse playing record over that time and have probably a better team.

As for the ABs next week we'll probably lose. Factors in our favour are SA usually are very strong in the AIs and other teams would of certainly rolled over yesterday. SA have beaten NZ this year so they are beatable by a team we've beaten. I think thats clutching at straws. Our biggest issue will be discipline sort that out and we have chance but I have zero faith it will be sorted.

 

[spartan32]

Honestly I think Farrells attempt to wrap is incidental. The tackle I feel leads with the shoulder.

He was a lucky boy but possibly a 50/50 call. I know If be less happy if the shoe was on the other foot.

I'm sorry, but what?! All the force from a good tackle comes fromth shoulder. You don't tackle with your arms, unless tapping. The shot was to the torso of a SA man mountain, below the shoulder, Faz's right arm was outside his body and was capable, and partially did wrap during th tackle, as did his left. The contest was fair.

I literally don't know what the issue is.

 

[spartan32]

If thats Englands B team then we definitely got our work cut out for us.

England was IMO the better team. I thought that defended really well.

The tackle was fine at the end and thats why the ref initially saw nothing in it. I was wondering, who made it an issue? Was it a NH official? I'm just asking...anyone know?

Sod off All Black. You are well and truly the best team in the world with pace, power, commitment and skill in pretty much every position. In a world 15 most would be ABs. You also have unwavering continuity in coach and style of play and you're at near enough 100% strength and even if not you seem to have a like for like replacement at every position.

So don't come in all humble, or try and cover the chance of a potential freak loss by suggesting that we are better than we are. We are at half strength at best, and even before that we weren't looking too hot. SA have us that game, and we survived, barely.

The ABs should beat us with relative ease, and if you don't you would have underperformed. It's as simple as that. I'd rather you lot just owned the fact that you are, and pretty much always have been, the team to beat.

 

[spartan32]

The basics for me.

First half was sure to watch and pretty bad from both teams.

SA failed to make use of their much bigger pack and had a shocker at he line out which essentially killed them off.
SA backs and passing however were at time wonderful. Crisp and in tight channels, they seem to link so well and their back three looked deadly at all times. With their forwards doing their job properly SA look like they could well be back in the running. Had Faf been playing things may have been different.

England are on our knees as far as players are concerned but it was good to see what some new boys could do when given a chance. Wilson played really well, as did Curry (again). Fax stepped up and I think later a great game overall. And that hit at the end was a thing of beauty.
Young's is still not great in my book, but it seems that no one else is going to get a shot so we're stuck with his glacial movements and step and pass routine.
Te'o wasn't as bad as I was expecting, although his running lines were often predictable. Seemed to be ok in defence but haven't seen any stats.
I though Slade did ok all things considered. Made himself busy, but JJ or Manu will certainly oust him in return.
Daly, as I suspected, didn't really cut it a 15 during international. Terrible under high ball and positioning not great.
May was good, which is becoming the norm. Nowell solid, although he always looks far too slow to be a winger in my book.

In the end it's a win. We did what we could with what we had, took the chances given and had some alright moments. Frankly I'll take it.

But against a more clinical side, we would have been well and truly put away. Not sure what we can do about next weekend, but we need to do something, and fast.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I dislike both 12s in this match, but they seemed to perform very well given their limitations - so credit to them.

I only saw 40mins highlights, but neither side looked like world beaters to me and I expect both to pick up a loss this month.

A pity Pollard lacked the old BMT at the end

 

[All Black]

So don't come in all humble, or try and cover the chance of a potential freak loss by suggesting that we are better than we are. We are at half strength at best, and even before that we weren't looking too hot. SA have us that game, and we survived, barely.

I'm not coming in all humble at all. What I've said is what I'm honestly thinking.

I hear that the English team had so many players out injured but yet, they still beat the Boks who we struggled with this year. So I have very good reason to think the English B side or whatever side they put out will be tough.

I think All Blacks England will be a close game.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm not coming in all humble at all. What I've said is what I'm honestly thinking.

I hear that the English team had so many players out injured but yet, they still beat the Boks who we struggled with this year. So I have very good reason to think the English B side or whatever side they put out will be tough.

I think All Blacks England will be a close game.

Whilst I won't accuse you of false humbleness, I don't really see how it will be close. By all accounts SA should have walked that game and it was only making big mistakes at crucial points that allowed us to win. We didn't look good until the final 20 minutes and NZ will not overthrow at the lineouts in the way SA did. They will also have seen how leaky the English midfield was and will just charge right through there repeatedly.

Got to love those whinging about Farrell "leading with the shoulder" on the BBC, what else should you lead with?

Also can we make a meme of some sort from this?

 

[All Black]

Got to love those whinging about Farrell "leading with the shoulder" on the BBC, what else should you lead with?

Straight away you know those whingers never played rugby.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Marx the best hooker in the world.... Just don't ask to throw in the lineout.
Fair play to England for sticking in the game and taking it in the end, however SA should be extremely disappointed that they didn't put the game out of sight before half tine. Curry looks better and better each game and you woupw think that the 7 shirt is his for the moment.

 

[BPM]

I think we're overstating the injury situation a little.

By my reckoning, our first choice 23 looks something like (Eddie's selections not mine):

1. M. Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Robshaw
7. T. Curry*
8. B. Vunipola
9. B. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Te'o
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Daly

16. George
17. Genge
18. H. Williams
19. Lawes**
20. Hughes
21. Care
22. G. Ford
23. Slade/Tuilagi/Nowell

Depending upon the severity of the injuries to Tom Curry and Lawes, that's either 7 or 9 of the preferred 23.

That's obviously a significant number of injuries, but I disagree when people talk about us being at 'half strength' and at this stage of the World Cup cycle and with the resources we have, we shouldn't be using it as an excuse.

The unfortunate aspect is who has been injured. Losing our top three loose heads (inc. Marler) and potentially our entire first choice back row has been the most obviously problematic, but actually I think we've really missed Joseph at 13. I don't think Eddie's system has got the best out of him in attack, but he's been massively missed in defence.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Got to love those whinging about Farrell "leading with the shoulder" on the BBC, what else should you lead with?

Aye

"I was always taught to lassoo tackle"

Good luck with trying to lassoo a 110kg bloke running directly at you, pal.

 

[higgik]

Marx the best hooker in the world.... Just don't ask to throw in the lineout.
Fair play to England for sticking in the game and taking it in the end, however SA should be extremely disappointed that they didn't put the game out of sight before half tine. Curry looks better and better each game and you woupw think that the 7 shirt is his for the moment.

Also like Wilson, he looked like he should be the 6, when Binny returns, with Mercer taking that role until then.
Itoje needs to calm down and become the silent assassin he once was. He is definitely better when he focuses on his game and not the opposition, (how many line out steals have we seen this year).

The only issue, from watching the highlights, was that people are quick to moan about Te'o and Slade. In the second half, when we started to get some front foot ball, they looked better, and they will get better when Mitchell's defensive system is fully ingrained. The whole team looked like they were still in the process of fully understanding the systems.

Otherwise, I thought every player looked like they were putting their hands up to start in Japan. Shame it is 6-12 months too late.

 

[Mike Rolls]

The physical disparity between Farrell and Esterhuizen, isn't quite as great as claimed earlier. 6'3 and 235 lbs against 6'1 and 206 pounds. Two inches in height, not five, although the weight difference isn't far off - 13 kilos rather than 15. As to the tackle, someone compared it to Sonny Bill Williams' red card against the Lions- no comparison. SBW charged in, shoulder first against the head of a virtually stationary target with no attempt to use his arms. Farrell's effort was a straight on tackle with both men moving at pace - and he put himself in more danger than his opponent, receiving an accidental but pretty heavy smack around the head from Esterhuizen's arm. .
Mike

 

[BluenoseKelv]

Really impressed with Moon, Williams, Ewels, Mercer, Wilson, May, Farrell and the work rate of Nowell. They all have to start against the All Blacks. However Daly, Slade, Youngs and Shields were very poor, although in fairness to Daly he isn't a 15. The rest were solid and did their job. South Africa were at lot more at strength than we were and it showed however they made a lot of mistakes which cost them and tbh they didn't really offer a great deal of attacking threat given the possession they had. De Allende was their best player for me.