[2018 November Tests] England v South Africa (3/10/18)

[Hanley!]

He was a lucky boy but possibly a 50/50 call. I know If be less happy if the shoe was on the other foot.

More a 75/5 call. I highly doubt that call would have been made earlier in the game. The refs just didn't want it to be the call that cost England the game.

 

[User1245]

Oh I think Farrell's got his arm around Gardner as we speak. Doing a reach around most likely.

Boks can blame themselves for that loss though. Poor decisions and execution.

 

[Reiser99]

For me the issue was less the wrap and more where the collision was. I felt it was chest rather than throat/neck/head which was my initial worry. It's times like this where I remember someone saying. Don't give the ref the opportunity. I can definitely see another ref giving it, though for me it was penalty only not yellow (would that have mattered anyway unless kick missed but somehow England didn't get it off the pitch?) if he did give it.

 

[Aristodemus]

Going off the decisions of this Prem and some HC games this season I was expecting a penalty to be given. It's interesting though that none of the SA or non-English posters want to mention the shoulder to the head on Kruis which was from the breakdown SA won the penalty to go ahead 11-9. If that went to the TMO then I'm certain it would be red.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

By the letter of the law it wasn't a penalty. It looks to me like the tackled player (Andre something? Westhuizen?) was attempting to push back Farrell with a forearm as well (a la Tuilagi vs Jean de Villiers in 2012), which explains at least partially why Farrell's attempt to wrap his arms was unsuccessful.

It does seem like a loophole; it was effectively a shoulder charge, but because he attempted to wrap he's within the law. I don't see it as a law that can be altered either, as it's not always possible. Imagine the SA player wins that collision- he's a big lad that just boshed Farrell with a schmexy elbow hand-off thing (like the previously mentioned Tuilagi-Villiers incident, that's been in every Tuilagi highlight reel under the sun since). End result is the same, two players fly apart with the attempt to wrap failed, just this time the defender won the collision. The duty of care lies with the defender, which is sensible, but when the attacking player is attempting to push you away, being punished for failing to wrap seems churlish.

That's my take, total shoite or is there some sense in that somewhere?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

and my god are we medicore right now...

By what measure are you mediocre right now? You just beat the boks, be happy with the win. Yes, the boks didn't take their opportunities but if they did England would have approached the game differently. And this is a springbok team who are a lot better on defence than they were last time england faced them. Maybe you are mediocre compared to when you were on top form during your 18 run streak?

So given the boks did not take their opportunities england played quite well for the most part, i thought. they had good skill, a good kick chase game, made good decisions, and forced a lot of knock ons.

The English commentator obviously is not a Daly fan though. Twice he suggested Daly made a poor decision when he made absolutely the correct decision. First time Nkosi was blocking the potential pas. Second time he failed to pass to may in a 1 vs 3 situation which, had it gone to ruck (the most likely outcome) could have been about 2 v 4 or 5 at the ruck.

The English did let the Boks make it over the advantage line very easily, though this seemed partly to do with Englands tactic of attacking the ball in the tackle, only partly though.

Interesting selection of farrel at 10 because the specialist midfield didn't really add any specialist midfield skills compared to a midfield with farrel there. they didn't prevent the boks gettign over the gainline, or have a better tackle success rate, for example. I guess defence at 10 might have been better with farrell instead of Ford.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I guess defence at 10 might have been better with farrell instead of Ford.

That's unlikely, Ford concedes ground but at least makes the tackle, many of our other players were missing the tackles entirely. It seems Ford conceding ground being a massive problem is always based on that game against Wasps where Hughes repeatedly ran through him. Internationally he is pretty reliable. Won't put in a big hit but won't miss either.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

That's unlikely, Ford concedes ground but at least makes the tackle, many of our other players were missing the tackles entirely. It seems Ford conceding ground being a massive problem is always based on that game against Wasps where Hughes repeatedly ran through him. Internationally he is pretty reliable. Won't put in a big hit but won't miss either.

Maybe they didn't want to concede ground in the close channel, or thought it's be worse if Farrell was at 12 and they missed tackels in midfield (but that still happend).

Otherwise, the chosen 10 12 13 makes less sense. Maybe Eddie is just trying something different. Ford Farrell Tuilagi must be the long term option. Although I don't know about this Loz guy you fellas often sepak of.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Maybe they didn't want to concede ground in the close channel, or thought it's be worse if Farrell was at 12 and they missed tackels in midfield (but that still happend).

Otherwise, the chosen 10 12 13 makes less sense. Maybe Eddie is just trying something different. Ford Farrell Tuilagi must be the long term option. Although I don't know about this Loz guy you fellas often sepak of.

Any plans involving Tuilagi cannot be long term. I think it will be Ford-Farrell-JJ when he returns. JJ is our best defending 13 and our midfield is generally much less leaky with him there.

 

[bushytop]

More a 75/5 call...

Yeah... if you're counting out of 80... lol I've had a few too bud. Agreed with the rest tho.

 

[Iron Lion Zion]

Honest question.

All Blacks average around 5 trys per game
England couldn't score 1 today.

Do you think the All Blacks will lose sleep heading into this next game?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well the Boks beat the Blacks away and should have beaten them twice. We've just beaten the Boks twice in a row with half a team.....

But no, not really.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Honest question.

All Blacks average around 5 trys per game
England couldn't score 1 today.

Do you think the All Blacks will lose sleep heading into this next game?

On paper no. But this is Twickenham and ABs don't tend do thrash England at the end of a long year. And England should rise to the occasion having not played the ABs in 4 years.

Having said that their first team should be well rested after arriving early last week. And there is a certain feeling the Boks let England off the hook in today's game which the ABs will not and will punish England if they repeat the same mistakes. ABs have better depth and bench so I think they will win next week by 10-15.

 

[Iron Lion Zion]

I think, England will be a different team for the All Blacks just like South Africa is.

South Africa save their heart, soul and carnage for the All Blacks. They simply do not get up for other teams. I think you will see England attack the All Blacks aggressively. Playing like they did today will bring a fairly easy defeat.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Captain. Leader. Legend

"Co captain".
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You soppy ******** of a Nation!



Edit: as an aside... Peno ALL day long. But who gives a ****, not like the Saffas were at full strength! *Appropriate emoji*

 

[All Black]

If thats Englands B team then we definitely got our work cut out for us.

England was IMO the better team. I thought that defended really well.

The tackle was fine at the end and thats why the ref initially saw nothing in it. I was wondering, who made it an issue? Was it a NH official? I'm just asking...anyone know?

 

[Reiser99]

If thats Englands B team then we definitely got our work cut out for us.

England was IMO the better team. I thought that defended really well.

The tackle was fine at the end and thats why the ref initially saw nothing in it. I was wondering, who made it an issue? Was it a NH official? I'm just asking...anyone know?

Angus Gardener from Aus.

 

[All Black]

Angus Gardener from Aus.

Yeah but Gardner initially did not call it a penalty as that was a normal tackle hes seen many times before down here. He was tipped by someone to review it. I think it was a sideline official.

I found it annoying because it was a beautiful tackle and that killed it a little. Farrell should of been celebrating the win after that hit.

 

[Saint Matt]

I think, England will be a different team for the All Blacks just like South Africa is.

South Africa save their heart, soul and carnage for the All Blacks. They simply do not get up for other teams. I think you will see England attack the All Blacks aggressively. Playing like they did today will bring a fairly easy defeat.

Monumental task to win next week with the players we've got missing, particularly in terms of intensity and sustaining that intensity. They'll give it a bloody good go, I've no doubts about that but there are a couple who I wouldn't be entirely confident having as third/fourth choice international players, never mind first/second choice. Without being too negative, this autumn for me is about damage limitation as much as anything else. If a couple of fringe players put their hand up as potential options for the World Cup, even better.

Today was a big, big win it has to be said and they showed guts. They fought hard and showed some serious spirit and fight, you can't ask any more than that. They gave everything but a better opposition has that game won for me though at half time, they keep the score board ticking over and go a couple of scores in front. SA didn't, NZ will.

Individually there were lots of good performances right across the field in the second half. Skill wise and ability wise, lots of good things. Some good stuff in the back row, back three linked well, nice work in around the midfield at times, we made a couple of lovely breaks today and were probably a pass away from finishing a couple of them off. As always though, the ability to create and maintain pressure at International level is paramount and as you'd expect with this amount of unavailability, that's my worry and was a worry today IMO.

Just a word on Owen Farrell, the tackle is boredline but f*cking hell what a competitor he is. His Dad never hid when he played and Owen is no different. Some huge involvements today, couple of wonderful penalty goals, he threw a couple of beautiful passes in that last 25 mins as well that just kept us rolling forward, two big defensive involvements as well.

 

[All Black]

Just a word on Owen Farrell, the tackle is boredline but f*cking hell what a competitor he is. His Dad never hid when he played and Owen is no different. Some huge involvements today, couple of wonderful penalty goals, he threw a couple of beautiful passes in that last 25 mins as well that just kept us rolling forward, two big defensive involvements as well.

Thats how you tackle IMO. He was just unlucky not to get that arm around but a thing of beauty none the less. I have new found respect for the more mature Owen Farrell. I think he's one of the worlds best, top 3 IMO.