[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 4: New Zealand v South Africa (16/09/2017)

[Kiwiwomble]

I was just about to say daggs got a big punt, he use to kick goals when with the highlanders too

 

[The Jones Boy]

For a long time it was considered the duty of the fullback to be the kicker.
It is a development of the modern game that the first five has to be the kicker.
Alan Hewson was a long serving All Black and Wellington full back and he took all the place kicks. He was a classy goal kicker. He made a dent in the Boks in the highly controversial 1981 tour.
Fergie McCormack was a long serving Canterbury and All Black full back and he was our kicker as well.
Joe Karam was our kicker and fullback in the early 1970's.
Who can forget the great Don 'The Boot' Clarke who was our phenomenal kicker and fullback for about 8 years from the mid-50-s to the mid 60's.

From Aussie it's hard to forget Roger Gould. Later Matt Burke.
For France, Serge Blanco.



I thik it puts too much pressure on the first five to 'have to kick' the penalties as well as all the other game management duties they perform.
Dan Carter stands out for me because his all round game was excellent and his goal kicking was of such a high standard.
If Barrett gets his kicking boots on he will hold the jersey for ten years. The other aspects of his game are amazing, and his turn of pace is electric.

 

[Larksea]

I was just about to say daggs got a big punt, he use to kick goals when with the highlanders too

yeah Dagg is an amazing goal kicker, that year he kicked for the highlanders was more than impressive he may have been the best player in super rugby that year. but he's been pretty clear that he doesn't really want the responsibility and he has only taken a couple of kicks for the AB's as a backup when there has been an injury.

But even kicking for touch there are a lot of situations where he could gain an extra 15m or so depending on the side of the field etc. There was a long period where Crudens kicks for touch were pretty poor on distance and bender, dagg or two others could have done a lot better.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Nigel Owens is the referee for this match.

With Coenie Oosthuizen out, the question will be if Nyakane will start, or if Dreyer or Wilco Louw will jump ahead of Nyakane in the starting position at tighthead? There are also talks that Jean-Luc Du Preez might start ahead of Cassiem at no. 8.

As for the Backline. I can't help but feel that Pollard might slot in somewhere in the starting lineup. AC has been talking him up for the past 2 weeks, but didn't use him at all against the Wallabies. The question is if he will slot in at 10 or 12? If I were to guess, he'll slot in at 12 with Jan moving to 13. Then it's a question of Kriel moving to 14 in place of Rhule or to 15 in place of Coetzee.

I just can't see us keeping the backline as it is after the performance last week.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Pity about Coenie but I really rate Louw and Du Toit and think they should both be in the mix with Oosthuizen and Kitshoff as our go-to props with Nyakane in the squad as back up for both though that may be unfair to keep him out because of his versatility.

Anyway. I'm just hope we keep it respectable. If we were to be accurate in our decision making and execution I might give us a shot but I havn't been convinced by some of our backline players in particular throughout this year and find I am losing faith in more of them as we go along but a lot of that can probably be down to AC gaining more and more influence again as we take one step forward and hopefully just a half step back each game but I kinda get the idea we're losing ground again. More so from the way we play rather than the actual results.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Jaco Kriel has returned to South Africa after suffering a shoulder injury. http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/bok-blow-as-jaco-kriel-returns-home-20170912

So Du Preez will in all likelihood start in Kriel's place...

 

[SomeOke]

Jaco Kriel out with a shoulder injury.
Honestly I don't think we're in the right shape to challenge the AB's yet, I'd like to avoid last years blow-outs of 30 and 40 points respectively.
If we can keep it within 10 I'd be a very happy man.

Edit: Ninja'd anyone know who is likely to come into the squad?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Jaco Kriel out with a shoulder injury.
Honestly I don't think we're in the right shape to challenge the AB's yet, I'd like to avoid last years blow-outs of 30 and 40 points respectively.
If we can keep it within 10 I'd be a very happy man.

Edit: Ninja'd anyone know who is likely to come into the squad?

Well the 2 Du Preez brothers are already with the Squad... So my guess is one would start and the other would be on the bench.

 

[SomeOke]

Well the 2 Du Preez brothers are already with the Squad... So my guess is one would start and the other would be on the bench.

That make sense, there is also the option of PsdT either starting at, or covering flank.

Edit: Also according to local rugby news, the back three will remain unchanged for anyone who was hopeful.
In Rhule's defense it looks like he has worked really hard to shut the naysayers up. That said I still don't think he's international quality, but if I'm being harsh you could say the same about our entire back three.
I do think we are lacking some brutal world class backs, to be fair their aren't too many options (Rohan, Combrink are the obvious ones, I'd include Leyds in their too). There are a few young guys who could get their however (Nkosi, Senatla, Gelant, Willemse, Bosch could all very easily be world class).

 

[TRF_heineken]

That make sense, there is also the option of PsdT either starting at, or covering flank.

Edit: Also according to local rugby news, the back three will remain unchanged for anyone who was hopeful.
In Rhule's defense it looks like he has worked really hard to shut the naysayers up. That said I still don't think he's international quality, but if I'm being harsh you could say the same about our entire back three.
I do think we are lacking some brutal world class backs, to be fair their aren't too many options (Rohan, Combrink are the obvious ones, I'd include Leyds in their too). There are a few young guys who could get their however (Nkosi, Senatla, Gelant, Willemse, Bosch could all very easily be world class).

It would be a bad move IMHO to play PSDT at Flanker or no. 8. Especially after his performance last weekend....

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Kriel out isn't too big of an issue. Its not as if the other forwards aren't pulling their weight at the ruck and ITO carrying. Shifting Kolisi to open side and bringing in JLdP seems the best and most likely bet. Its also not the forwards that are the issue by and large even if there is room for improvement (Whiteley coming in for Cassiem and Kriel and Oosthuizen fit).

The issue is 1) we have a green backline and there are big question marks about 2) if these are indeed our best available options and 3) whether they have the potential to grow into world class players given enough time. I for one am not convinced of 3 and think it might be a good idea if AC were to rotate backline players one or two positions at a time and if anyone puts their hand up then let them continue. My first stop would be to bring in RJvR and Lleyds at 12 and 14 while shifting Serfontein out to 13. I just think that'd settle Jantjies and give us more of a play maker at 13 and in conjunction with Serf at 13 and Combrinck at 14 should make our defense out wide more robust. Combrinck can also help with the kicking from fullback and is more assured under the high ball.

After that I'd bring in Pollard and Lleyds at 10 and 11 or 15. See how they go. I have an idea these players have the higher ceilings. I have little hope for 9 sadly. We have a raft of options but every candidate has an * next to their name. Scrummy with the best service to start with Hougaard on the bench for mine. SA still is looking for our 9s to play fly half whereas we should start trusting our guys to do their job and pick our 9s based on their service.

 

[Durbanite]

With Du Preez twins in the squad JL/SK could take up Kriel's workload and Dan could come in for Cassiem off the bench. A pity Jaco is out, a good bet would've been to play JLDP at 8.

Injuries are going to blunt our bench especially now that PSDT and JLDP will probably start, at least Kitshoff should still be in an impact role so there's that.

As for the back 3, 2 specialist wings will always hurt us against a team as tactically astute as the ABs, but at this stage we just have to soldier on, hopefully they will be working on viable exit strategies.

Restarts and exits are hurting us, between Skosan botching it under the high ball and Rhule not being able to clear the ball with his own boot we're going to struggle, but tbf we have been playing this way the whole year. I think it was a bad idea leaving for the Australian tour with little viable replacements for the back 3. Only way to change the squad now is to weaken other areas like the centres or trust Leyds to perform. I would be happy with Pollard at 12, Serf at 13 an Kriel at 14 or some combination along these lines. Pollard at 15 doesn't sound horrid, but can see Coetzee being the best bet at 15 for now. He has to have a ripper if we're stand a chance, the NZ backs are going to keep him so busy.

Wishing at this stage we had Combrinck or Bosch's boots to shore up the backline, they're both good at thumping the ball miles down field which is better imo then the short or jabby kicks from EJ or Coetzee.

It's not like we haven't won a match against the Kiwis with 2 specialist wings and an average fullback before, and our boys are always energized against NZ so I'm optimistic of our chances compared to the horror of last year.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yeah look I'm being realistic here. I don't think we'll win this game, but I'm just hoping for a good contest with the score a bit closer than what it was last year.

I'll be looking more to the intent our guys are showing on the pitch, and if they are doing the bok jersey proud again.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I reckon the Boks are in resurgent form.
Even with AC as the coach, the retarded quota system and the northern hemisphere player drain.
There is so much talent in the RSA, you just can't keep them down for long.

 

[Penne Rara]

the biggest problem with DMac kicking is that face he makes when lining up...... (this is the official DMac emoji)

Isn't this the official Dmac emoji?

 

[mania]

Isn't this the official Dmac emoji?

nah i reckon thats wolverine.. or a ****** off kaino. dMac isnt savage enough for this emoji

 

[Penne Rara]

I wish the AB's would get out of this thing we have, where the 10 does all the goal kicking and kicks for touch from penalties. The positive is that roles are clearly defined but there are many situations here we have a guy on field for a kick that would be better suited depending on the situation. Be it Dagg for a touch finder or of Barrett has missed a couple and is having an off day then let dmac take over, it doesn't need to be a big deal

I completely agree with this, although Barrett has proven to be an excellent touch finder as of late. His in-game kicking is also great, but he needs to stop trying these chip kicks when they're not on. They used to work in open play but teams have now changed their strategy and cover defenders are here to recover these short kicks. They can be used, but the conditions need to be just right. That being said, he needs to be kept at 10, there is no other first five better than him at finding options flat on the line.

nah i reckon thats wolverine.. or a ****** off kaino. dMac isnt savage enough for this emoji

Well there's not much difference, is there?

 

[Durbanite]

AC comments on the game from SuperSport:

"We are very aware of how tough it is going to be against the All Blacks and we need no reminding of how we will be punished if we repeat the same kind of errors that cost us against the Wallabies," said Coetzee.

"There are grey areas in our game that we have to clear up. They are decision making areas such as whether it is to gather kicks or run and kick. Whatever the case, we can't give the All Blacks a choice on what to do with the possession. Because we know they will hurt you if you give them the ball and a choice of what to do with it."
The Boks were reminded by the Perth match though of how much they can gain just by controlling possession. In the first half they didn't have ball to play with and looked poor as a result, whereas in the second half when the pack came into its own it was a different story.

"The players are starting to make better decisions and you can only make better decisions if you are winning more ball," said Coetzee.
"That is the prime message going to the players ahead of this match. It is quite simple really. If we don't win possession we have no chance of dictating the game."

AC saying the right things and hinting at a more direct approach on Saturday. I particularly like the bit where he says we won't want to give them free ball and options to use it as the amount of aimless kicks in the past to the ABs were all too prevalent in our previous attempts at success and every time a gift to the kiwi backs particularly under HM. Glad he has seen some sense, hopefully the bokke will follow through and seize the initiative. I'm more at ease about our chances at giving the kiwis a proper contest now but it'll still be a huge challenge as always.


Source: https://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/170912/Boks_focus_on_blunting_AB_momentum

 

[The Jones Boy]

Isn't this the official Dmac emoji?

I would give this one to Sam Cane

 

[SomeOke]

D-Mac is affectionately known as rape-face Damo in our friend circle, douchebag Damo is de Allende.

In any case while it may be true that the AB's have looked a tiny bit vulnerable this year it's just not enough. Different story if the Aussies or Saffers were having amazing years with top squads but both nations are suffering through a few gremlins at the moment. I fully expect us to compete up front, but the AB's always score 14+ points from counter-attacks or opposition mistakes on top of their structured play. If you don't have a way to do the same or find a way to make up those points you just can't beat them.

If we defend the way we defended agaisnt Aus we will be in trouble as well in my opinion. You can't give the Kiwi players time on the ball to make plays.
As I said if we can keep it under 10, I'd be very happy, under 20 would be somewhat acceptable but make me moderately miserable. Any more and it's a warm bath, some cold play, and a razor.