[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: Ireland vs England (18/03/2017)

[Every Time Ref]

It's not wingers being weak. It's the narrowness of defensive system

The tries Vs Scotland were all scored between the two centres, but that space was made by good play elsewhere.

The weakness in that area was obviously identified but to exploit it England needed to tie up defenders everywhere else on the pitch, so the weak area was isolated and the Scottish backrow wasn't able to support the centres (it was partly the lineout that achieved this). The basic principle can be applied to a different weakness, I'd expect to see similar lineout ball, similar moves with dummy runners moving defenders but the final pass going to a blindside winger coming round, so JJ becomes the dummy runner.

I'm actually quite surprised Ireland haven't gone for a pack stacked with jumpers, given how England scored three first phase tries off lineouts. I guess they trust their midfield defence.

 

[munstermuffin]

The tries Vs Scotland were all scored between the two centres, but that space was made by good play elsewhere.

The weakness in that area was obviously identified but to exploit it England needed to tie up defenders everywhere else on the pitch, so the weak area was isolated and the Scottish backrow wasn't able to support the centres (it was partly the lineout that achieved this). The basic principle can be applied to a different weakness, I'd expect to see similar lineout ball, similar moves with dummy runners moving defenders but the final pass going to a blindside winger coming round, so JJ becomes the dummy runner.

I'm actually quite surprised Ireland haven't gone for a pack stacked with jumpers, given how England scored three first phase tries off lineouts. I guess they trust their midfield defence.

Vs Scotland though off memory.
1 try was Ringrose getting sucked in through system being narrow. Like they were well worked that day but equally we were narrow but it's a system that obviously has meaning

 

[Every Time Ref]

Vs Scotland though off memory.
1 try was Ringrose getting sucked in through system being narrow. Like they were well worked that day but equally we were narrow but it's a system that obviously has meaning

Didn't quite follow that sorry?

I quoted your post to follow on from it, not because I disagree - I agree that Ireland defend narrow. Will be interesting to see how that plays out, regardless of first phase strike moves England like to go 2 passes wide to the wingers, can see tries for Watson and Daly if the tight carrying is effective.

 

[munstermuffin]

Didn't quite follow that sorry?

I quoted your post to follow on from it, not because I disagree - I agree that Ireland defend narrow. Will be interesting to see how that plays out, regardless of first phase strike moves England like to go 2 passes wide to the wingers, can see tries for Watson and Daly if the tight carrying is effective.

Never mind me man. Wasn't saying you were disagreeing. Just pointing I meant it through the system we weak wide

 

[corny]

Yeah can't argue with the obvious advantage England have out wide.

I thought we were passed the days of relying on the weather to level things up but its gonna be **** tomorrow. Game will probably centre around the forward battle and the set piece. We're under pressure here too. More i think of it we're relying on the intangibles.... hurt of losing and the home record to win this one. Hope its enough.

 

[nh206]

Yeah can't argue with the obvious advantage England have out wide.

I thought we were passed the days of relying on the weather to level things up but its gonna be **** tomorrow. Game will probably centre around the forward battle and the set piece. We're under pressure here too. More i think of it we're relying on the intangibles.... hurt of losing and the home record to win this one. Hope its enough.

I think that's probably what most English fans are worried about too. If both teams play on the form they've had for the rest of the championship it would be an English win by a smallish margin I would say.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think that's probably what most English fans are worried about too. If both teams play on the form they've had for the rest of the championship it would be an English win by a smallish margin I would say.

It'll be interesting to see what difference Payne makes, on occasion Kearney has been positioned very well where a dominant tackle would have killed the attack and put the opposition under pressure. Dominant tackles aren't in Kearney's repertoire but they are in Payne's so I foresee less easy metres to be made out wide. I'd be a lot more fearful if Nowell was in the starting team too.

If we win this it'll be by winning the breakdown battle andgetting in Youngs' and Ford's faces, watching them **** the bed, going to be difficult with the pack they have but its very possible. I think both sides will attempt to really dominate possession.

 

[Groundhog]

Kieran Marmion is a Welshman commonly misconstrued to be Irish, who chose to be Irish instead of Welsh and will drive the heathen snakes out of Ireland. Thus, Kieran Marmion is St.Patrick, and this is surely his hour!

 

[munstermuffin]

Kieran Marmion is a Welshman commonly misconstrued to be Irish, who chose to be Irish instead of Welsh and will drive the heathen snakes out of Ireland. Thus, Kieran Marmion is St.Patrick, and this is surely his hour!

In fairness Marmion was always in system with Exiles up along.

Earls is fit. Too.

Alpha makes good point there but regards Payne I think we won't see best of him tomorrow as weather will dictate tight game. Its wrong balance in backrow and 2nd row is lacking lineout operator but Schmidt may have struck lucky. Those 5 are good carriers which will be needed tomorrow.

 

[Groundhog]

In fairness Marmion was always in system with Exiles up along.

Earls is fit. Too.

Alpha makes good point there but regards Payne I think we won't see best of him tomorrow as weather will dictate tight game. Its wrong balance in backrow and 2nd row is lacking lineout operator but Schmidt may have struck lucky. Those 5 are good carriers which will be needed tomorrow.

Have some respect for your saint apostate.
Lads the legends game is very amusing. Phrases like "lung busting 12 metre run" in rotation. Constant mocking of players who got fat.

 

[MarkyH]

Calm before the storm. I'm both nervous and excited.

Looks like the weather is going to be grey and breezy by the time KO approaches, some showers around in the day. Can't seeing it impacting the game too much

 

[Bluemoon]

What a game this is going to be, regardless of Ireland not really having a massive amount on this game. The set pieces will be very interesting, particularly as Irelands line out wasn't functioning at all last week. With the weather being as it is, it could be a game for the purists.

I've got a terrible feeling for Ringrose in this game, not because of JJ alone, but the intensity of this English attack could be a massive problem for the Irish centres. Ireland are going to have to slow down the speed of the English ruck ball, considerably.

 

[munstermuffin]

Have some respect for your saint apostate.
Lads the legends game is very amusing. Phrases like "lung busting 12 metre run" in rotation. Constant mocking of players who got fat.

Was at that. Hangover is bad

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Calm before the storm. I'm both nervous and excited.

Looks like the weather is going to be grey and breezy by the time KO approaches, some showers around in the day. Can't seeing it impacting the game too much

Shame. With the pack we've picked I'd have quite fancied us in an arm wrestle in the rain.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Shame. With the pack we've picked I'd have quite fancied us in an arm wrestle in the rain.

Would you?! McGrath, Furlong, Henderson, Stander, O'Brien and Heaslip vs... Vunipola.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Would you?! McGrath, Furlong, Henderson, Stander, O'Brien and Heaslip vs... Vunipola.

Who are o'brien and Heaslip? Ive not seen them even at all yet. Well maybe once or twice behind the run of play ambling about.

 

[TobesHodges]

TBH what's most impressive is the England bench, Woods probably the only non impact player..

 

[munstermuffin]

TBH what's most impressive is the England bench, Woods probably the only non impact player..

That's where winning possibly is.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

VunipolaS, there'll be 2 of them in the 2nd half

With probably the biggest back 5 we've ever picked plus a front row who are more comfortable in the tighter exchanges, why not? SOB and Heaslip have been below par and, could be wrong here, but isn't Henderson better at 6 than lock? The Irish have got more carriers likely to make 10 or 15 metres at a time, but in the really tight exchanges you can get in bad weather I'd back the power of Hask and Billy etc.

 

[ALJ]

Expecting the 'out of form' Irish players to be on song today but virtually any side would miss Murray.

I think it'll be close, I just can't call it either way.