[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: France vs Wales (18/03/2017)

[Makos]

Wayne Barnes really is poor.

 

[corny]

Wayne Barnes really is poor.

Yeah back to form for Barnes i thought. Only interested in refereeing France for the majority of the game. The differing sanctions for the exact same infringement (knock on in the tackle) really exposed him. Don't think he's deliberately biased but he just seems to get sucked into a mode of thinking and is too dogmatic to get out of it. Ironically i thought he handled the injury time period ok given the pressure he was under. The 4th official made him look like a fool so it was a lone, difficult furrow.

What Wales get away with defending on their line defies belief sometimes. The offside line meant nothing to them all game.

Important win for France but Antonio and the team doctor should be challenged. Disgraceful what they were up to.

 

[ncurd]

The only thing Barnes did wrong in the overtime was not brandishing the YC more. I said it in the Italy game once a YC for too many infringements is given every penalty after that should be a YC. Wales were hugely cynical and were warned twice but it was allowed to carry on. I'm sure Barnes was just hoping one side could just end it legally and it not decided by a penalty and sending offs.

The 4th official made himself look stupid not Barnes.

Barnes had a **** game though and I usually defend him.

 

[Bluemoon]

Well, that was a strange and slightly frustrating end to a six nations for Wales.

I think that Wales really were a bit shell shocked by the fantastic intensity from France in the first 15. There were a number of mistakes from gathering restarts that instantly gave France precious territory, throughout the game. The set piece was also considerably less dominant than last week and it was hard to get much fluency in the Welsh attack. I don't knock Wales for taking the penalties and using a strong arm approach as that would have won the game. It was good to see that they changed their approach to try and counter the french attack. Warbs and Tips were fantastic again.

Obviously the 20 mins at the end was a key factor in why Wales were turned over. I thought when Nicky Smith came on the scrum looked very creaky. The relevant people need to check the Antonio incident. It was clear that it was a premeditated move to me, with a lack of evidence of a HIA or an injury. Also how bizarre was it that France suggested that George North bit himself? Had the French lost their head as that's such a weird thing to suggest?

I do feel, with a bit more accuracy around the park, Wales wouldn't have been in that position anyway so I'm not going to blame the ref or the incident for the loss, but it was sad to see it.

 

[dullonien]

I also thought Rob Evans was fantastic. He was under pressure in the scrum, but Slimani is probably the best scrummaged in the game presently. For a prop to last over 95 mins is just ridiculous, especially when the last 15 min of that was just scrummaging, and the majority of the game was defending. He really put himself about, and that floated pass out to Liam Williams was the best piece of skill all game (round the back pass from Franch 9 also good).

Wales had to chance it with Nicky Smith. His scrummaging has unfortunately looked suspect all 6 nations, but with Slimani on top of a knackered Evans, the Wales management had to try something different. It didn't help, but there we go.

The only counter argument for Barnes in those last 20mins is that if he took the yellow card approach, it would have quickly resulted in uncontested scrums, which would have been what Wales wanted. Sure France should score against 12/13 men, but there would have been more risk of a knock-on or being held-up over the line etc.

So maybe the rules should be looked at, with a ref allowed to give a penalty try for repeatedly dropping the scrum even if momentum hasn't been gathered yet.

 

[Bluemoon]

I also thought Rob Evans was fantastic. He was under pressure in the scrum, but Slimani is probably the best scrummaged in the game presently. For a prop to last over 95 mins is just ridiculous, especially when the last 15 min of that was just scrummaging, and the majority of the game was defending. He really put himself about, and that floated pass out to Liam Williams was the best piece of skill all game (round the back pass from Franch 9 also good).

Wales had to chance it with Nicky Smith. His scrummaging has unfortunately looked suspect all 6 nations, but with Slimani on top of a knackered Evans, the Wales management had to try something different. It didn't help, but there we go.

The only counter argument for Barnes in those last 20mins is that if he took the yellow card approach, it would have quickly resulted in uncontested scrums, which would have been what Wales wanted. Sure France should score against 12/13 men, but there would have been more risk of a knock-on or being held-up over the line etc.

So maybe the rules should be looked at, with a ref allowed to give a penalty try for repeatedly dropping the scrum even if momentum hasn't been gathered yet.

I tottaly agree about Rob Evans. I think he's made huge strides along with Ken Owens in this 6 nations, from very good players to players who are now probably the first choice for the test jersey. Both Rob's scrummaging and his work in the loose has been noticeable, and he certainly proved his fitness.

Yes, I really don't put the blame with Barnes as it was a difficult situation. He was trying his best to let the game be decided by a play, rather than by a refereeing decision, which is what we all want. Perhaps he didn't give a yellow excuse he knew that would result in non-consteted scrums and France clearly had the upper-hand? I didn't think penalty try was warranted at any point, but the yellows could have been produced earlier and then it is likely that France would have scored. Either way, from a Welsh perspective, there were a number of key points in the game where ball retention wasn't as good as it should have been in such a tight game.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I didn't catch the first half of the match, apparently there were a couple of alleged deliberate knock ons by Wales before the French one which got a yellow card - anyone know where I can see them, or at least which minute of the game they're in?

 

[Bluemoon]

I didn't catch the first half of the match, apparently there were a couple of alleged deliberate knock ons by Wales before the French one which got a yellow card - anyone know where I can see them, or at least which minute of the game they're in?

The only major one was in the first half when Jonathan Davies absolutely should have had a yellow card for a very similar slap down, in almost the same situation as the French yellow card.

There was also a close call for Wales somewhere around the 65th minute but I'm not sure it was as clear cut.

 

[TommiG88]

The only major one was in the first half when Jonathan Davies absolutely should have had a yellow card for a very similar slap down, in almost the same situation as the French yellow card.

There was also a close call for Wales somewhere around the 65th minute but I'm not sure it was as clear cut.

Originally, Barnes gave a penalty and said it was the same as the Welsh one. Biggar then charged off to the touch judge and the penalty was looked into. The reason I dislike Biggar, is his football antics!

I felt for Barnes yesterday, he didn't have too bad of game and managed that last 20mins with so much pressure on him, really well.

- - - Updated - - -

The only major one was in the first half when Jonathan Davies absolutely should have had a yellow card for a very similar slap down, in almost the same situation as the French yellow card.

There was also a close call for Wales somewhere around the 65th minute but I'm not sure it was as clear cut.

Second one was an accidental knock on. Correct decision.

First one, you're correct. Should have seen yellow.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I don't think i saw a replay of the Davies one but I think the France one was harsh, I would have only given a knock on. It's going to be interesting what happens regarding the phantom HIA, it looked rather dodgy. I wonder what punishment they dish out, if France are found guilty?

 

[FrenchFan]

Overall a bit disappointed in the development of the french side this tournament. Fikou is stepping up but Serin never hit the heights of last summer and Lopez is not the answer. Issues with all three backs too for me.

Agree with Fickou. He's grown in Fofana's absence. Disagree on Lopez. He finished this 6N with 90% success rate and with 67 pts he's highest scorer. His defense has been very solid. He needs to mix it more but he's getting there and he's grown into his role because Noves is backing him.

Was impressed with Antoine Dupont's first cap. This kid is a talent and so strong for his size. Think he may overtake Serin as first choice but good to have 2 young SH with no mental baggage from the previous era.

3rd place will keep the wolves away for Noves. He needs time.

 

[g6mcg]

Frustrating from Wales that they performed well despite being handicapped by their attacking structure. It doesn't look as if a more expansive game plan would notably weaken their strengths but they seem completely committed to playing in a certain way even though it no longer suits their best players.

 

[Rooinek]

Did anyone else get the impression that Wayne Barnes was milking the situation and intentionally dragging the game out?

There were a few times when he could have sped things up but he chose to rather make whatever decision delayed the game further . . . like when he said that he had to confer with the TMO only to have the TMO say he didn't know know what he (Barnes) was talking about . . . or when he stopped yet another scrum reset to ask more questions about the French substitution.

It's almost as if Barnes recognized there was a chance to break some kind of record for the longest period of "play" after the hooter and from that point onwards did whatever he could to break that record.

 

[ncurd]

Did anyone else get the impression that Wayne Barnes was milking the situation and intentionally dragging the game out?

There were a few times when he could have sped things up but he chose to rather make whatever decision delayed the game further . . . like when he said that he had to confer with the TMO only to have the TMO say he didn't know know what he (Barnes) was talking about . . . or when he stopped yet another scrum reset to ask more questions about the French substitution.

It's almost as if Barnes recognized there was a chance to break some kind of record for the longest period of "play" after the hooter and from that point onwards did whatever he could to break that record.

I got the complete opposite impression with Barnes finding the entire thing incredibly tiresome but trying really really hard to make sure everything was done right. Hense why he made a point saying the doctor said the player had to go off (I suspect he thought antics but knows he was powerless to overall a medical professional) and also trying to make sure he got it right about going to uncontested scrums and getting zero help from the 4th official. He had to check for the bite as well as it would of reversed the penalty.....honestly like I said he could of been a little more liberal with giving YC's he was trying extremely hard to not screw up.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I know rugby fans love to obsess about referees' contribution to games, but there was really nothing Barnes could've done about that farce (except that he should've given another yellow IMO). That was down to the players, the rules of the game and WR's total disinterest in sorting out the scrum

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I thought Barnes was terrible but l loved that when he awarded the try he turned his back on where the ball was grounded in a sort of "**** this **** I'm going home" sort of rebellion.

P.S only just read that when the French doctor came on the pitch he had been passed a message by one of the guys attached to Noves' team (not legal). Bought it looked fishy at the time but that's just downright illegal. Especially when Antonio trudged off clutching his stomach..

Wales can deserve to feel a little aggrieved. Was it Rob Evans who turned to Barnes and said "we don't care who we scrum against!". Good attitude.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I got the complete opposite impression with Barnes finding the entire thing incredibly tiresome but trying really really hard to make sure everything was done right. Hense why he made a point saying the doctor said the player had to go off (I suspect he thought antics but knows he was powerless to overall a medical professional) and also trying to make sure he got it right about going to uncontested scrums and getting zero help from the 4th official. He had to check for the bite as well as it would of reversed the penalty.....honestly like I said he could of been a little more liberal with giving YC's he was trying extremely hard to not screw up.

I agree that Barnes was p*ssed at the end. The sequence of events had to be real tiresome.

Sees antoni looking off, asks him if he's okay and he says yes. Next play doctor comes on saying he needs HIA. Wales saying they were bitten. Wales collapsing scrum for what seems like 20 times. He just wanted it to be over. Think about it, the toughest part of the game was 80-100, talk about mentally exhausting.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I also thought Rob Evans was fantastic. For a prop to last over 95 mins is just ridiculous, especially when the last 15 min of that was just scrummaging, and the majority of the game was defending. He really put himself about, and that floated pass out to Liam Williams was the best piece of skill all game.

I know some coaches don't believe it, but the front row are quite capable of playing more than 45 minutes at a decent standard. I hate hate hate the pre planned subs. If a player's in the groove and going well, I just don't see the sense in subbing him.

Couldn't believe my ears when Eddie was saying that they judge when to sub Hartley by his bounce times (the time it takes to get back to his feet after contact). I really hope he was pulling the journalist's chain, but I have a nasty feeling he wasn't.

 

[dullonien]

Some serious fallout possible if France are found guilty of manufacturing Antonio's 'injury'. The obvious precedent of coach + doctor + player clearly deceiving the officials would be 'bloodgate', which resulted in some hefty bans for all concerned. There was more premeditation involved there (the buying of blood capsules well in advance of the game etc.). The HIA is there to safeguard the players, if it's been used solely as a way of making a tactical substitution then that puts doubt in the whole process, and undermines player safety moving forwards.

My gut feeling is that this was the case. Nothing looked right about the process:

- no obvious collision for Antonio to suffer a head knock.
- member of French coaching staff illegally speaks to the doctor.
- Slimani warming up on the touchline well before Antonio coming off.
- Antonio answering Barnes that he was fine after first appearing a little unwilling to answer.
- Doctor initially a little cagey in answering Barnes' questions.
- No HIA carried out on the pitch, which is protocol.
- Antonio trudging off down the tunnel alone, where was the doctor now?
- Antonio appearing to hold his stomach.
- Noves unable to give an answer as to what was wrong with Antonio in post match.

This could prove costly for anyone involved from the French management (Noves must have known?), the doctor and Antonio himself.

Altogether a right farce.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I thought that was a typical Wales performance, a few basic errors giving the opposition field position followed by crap and unimaginative attack that never looked like they were going to score a try. Hopefully the 5th place finish will knock some sense into the WRU regarding giving the full time job to Howley.