[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 3: Scotland vs Wales (25/02/2017)

[ThebigARena]

I think Wales' problem is partly that you've tried to get rid of Warrenball without specifically replacing it with anything. There's a bit of desire to play but not a Real commitment to structural overhauling things and embracing a really new style of play. Because of that Wales don't have a very reliable way forward when they need it, except shipping it as quickly as possible across the pitch. Which isn't really a gameplan. Basically if you abandon a long-standing way of playing, you have to have a solid replacement game lined up. Wales are currently somewhere in between leaving warren ball and embracing something else.

I pretty much said that

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think that you are right, but I feel it also requires players who can change how they play or different types of players. I'm not sure that the current coaching set up are able to change the style of play, either because they aren't able to or because Gatland is still here for another few years yet and it's all a little awkward.

My big worry is that, although the under 20's are quite strong, there isn't a lot of Welsh players coming into the regions having the opportunity to step up and help buying into these new systems of playing. For example, the fact that Roberts is being asked to be more creative is probably why he is on the bench and SW has naturally taken over. I'm not saying it isn't time for that change to happen, but it accelerated the change in personnel. In Wales, a lot of people want to see Sam Davies in now as they feel he'll play this wider game we all want (VC comments aside). He really isn't ready yet for me, even after starting with he Ospreys and this is a problem Wales has across the board right now.

What worries me though is that although people insist very strongly that Howley has complete autonomy from Gatland and I imagine that's largely true, I haven't seen many if any indications of any discontinuity between Gatland and Howley in the sense that I don't see many examples of howler trying to do his own thing. Rather it feels like Howley was impregnated with Gatlands ideas before he went away and tried to continue Gatands legacy whilst also simultaneously trying to make it look as though Wales are embracing a new style of rugby. It just looks like a fairly weak implementation of both ideas, although the contact area has probably improved recently.

Really pleased to see Scotland return this tournament to 5 competitive teams. They've got great backs, I think they need a new forwards to be that bit scary, but there's a firm base to work from.

Wales are regressing so much. Part of that's on Howley but if he's losing lots of games, that's not all on him, he's not the world's best coach but he'll do decent with decent players and I don't think Wales have enough. I've been on about this before in the past but that match only solidified my belief.

Incidentally, I like giving Hogg crap for being shaky in defence, but he was such a difference maker in attack today and now I fully embrace him as Lions full-back. Until his next big mistake that is

p.s. Henry, I blame that on my connection! Makes it even funnier to me now though :lol:

Hey, better to be safe than sorry right!

But the question is: did the best team win?

hah, this.

 

[BPM]

Webb and Biggar are such ****s. Always whining and disagreeing with everything, even when it's obvious...

This. I very rarely get involved in negative comments but these two really irk me. Not in the spirit of rugby at all.

 

[ThebigARena]

Really pleased to see Scotland return this tournament to 5 competitive teams. They've got great backs, I think they need a new forwards to be that bit scary, but there's a firm base to work from.

Wales are regressing so much. Part of that's on Howley but if he's losing lots of games, that's not all on him, he's not the world's best coach but he'll do decent with decent players and I don't think Wales have enough. I've been on about this before in the past but that match only solidified my belief.

Incidentally, I like giving Hogg crap for being shaky in defence, but he was such a difference maker in attack today and now I fully embrace him as Lions full-back. Until his next big mistake that is

p.s. Henry, I blame that on my connection! Makes it even funnier to me now though :lol:

Nah mate we do have the quality in the youth the issue is under the strangle hold of gatland and howley they are not given the opportunity , trust me when I say we have the young talent we put 60 on Scotland in the U20S yesterday. It is a balance the coaching team haven't embraced , gatland has his way and that is it, like I said I hope Hardly any Welsh player get picked for this lions tour we need to rebuild and don't need the stresses of a lions tours which quite frankly is pointless in this day and age , I think most would agree that the 6 nations is far more important

 

[The5thOfficial]

Well! Fair play to Scotland, awesome 2nd half. Cant argue with the result. Wales's errors, penalties blah blah blah.

 

[NickBD]

Watch Gatland pick 15 Welsh players still.

At the moment, how many would you start? for me only Liam Williams on wing makes my 15.

 

[Peat]

Nah mate we do have the quality in the youth the issue is under the strangle hold of gatland and howley they are not given the opportunity , trust me when I say we have the young talent we put 60 on Scotland in the U20S yesterday. It is a balance the coaching team haven't embraced , gatland has his way and that is it, like I said I hope Hardly any Welsh player get picked for this lions tour we need to rebuild and don't need the stresses of a lions tours which quite frankly is pointless in this day and age , I think most would agree that the 6 nations is far more important

They're no good to Howley in the U20s now. The players in the set-up right now aren't good enough - who's outside the 23 that should be in?

 

[ThebigARena]

They're no good to Howley in the U20s now. The players in the set-up right now aren't good enough - who's outside the 23 that should be in?

Dacey, Giles, beck, Steff evans, cracknel, Tom Philips, jack Condy etc etc the list is long but the inefficiency of the Welsh coaching team is ****ing it up considerably

 

[j'nuh]

They're no good to Howley in the U20s now. The players in the set-up right now aren't good enough - who's outside the 23 that should be in?

I think most of the Welsh players have proven that they have a higher level that they aren't currently showing. I think it's less a problem in selection and/or lack of quality, and more in that the coaching team aren't getting enough out of the players. The backbone of Jones' team came from the Lancaster era, Jones just got more out of the same players.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

At the moment, how many would you start? for me only Liam Williams on wing makes my 15.

To start, ermmm yeh only Williams IMO.

 

[ThebigARena]

At the moment, how many would you start? for me only Liam Williams on wing makes my 15.

Rhys Webb is best scrum half by a country mile

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Rhys Webb is best scrum half by a country mile

Yeh sure he is.......

 

[munstermuffin]

Rhys Webb is best scrum half by a country mile

Webb is a country mile behind Murray and Youngs you mean

 

[j'nuh]

To start, ermmm yeh only Williams IMO.

I'd have Alun Wyn, Faletau (assuming good performances) and maybe Tipuric/Warburton at 7 too.

I think that we risk throwing the baby out with the bath water if we hold Wales' performances against all of the players.

 

[ThebigARena]

Webb is a country mile behind Murray and Youngs you mean

I beg to differ

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I beg to differ

I'm with you on that. He's very often one of Wales' best players in my opinion. I'd definitely have him ahead of Youngs, though not Murray.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I'm with you on that. He's very often one of Wales' best players in my opinion. I'd definitely have him ahead of Youngs, though not Murray.

Youngs is terrible currently, Webb is a lot better, but anybody thinking Webb is ahead of Murray is clearly out of their minds.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Routine for Scotland for me if Finn doesn't have some kind of weird emotional scar from his funny missed conversion against France. The Welsh can't exploit Scotland's main weakness, their slightly under strength pack and completely lack the Scottish cutting edge in the backs if they stick with recent selections (as exemplified by Hogg vs Halfpenny). If it was in Wales I'd fancy them to sneak it. But it isn't.

Scotland by 16

Allow me to be insufferably smug for a moment.

...

Right, now that that is out of the way Id have to say that is the most complete and high quality 80mins I think I have seen from a Scottish side and pretty much in line with expectations. I wish Laidlaw a swift recovery but Scotland can reach new heights without him as their starter. Visser really came on to a game, Watson outstanding from the bench and Finn and Hogg beginning to approach genuine world class.

I don't think Wales did all that badly really and I still think they would have squeaked a result if it was in Cardiff.

 

[McTallshort]

Youngs is terrible currently, Webb is a lot better, but anybody thinking Webb is ahead of Murray is clearly out of their minds.

Young's terrible?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Young's terrible?

Yeah, have you not noticed his recent form?