[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 1: Scotland vs. Ireland (04/02/2017)

[Leonormous Boozer]

Kind of my point, is beating a severely underperforming team really a sign of a return to the glory days? Yesterday wasn't much different to 2010 or 2013. It could be what finally gives them the confidence to win a game but what their media and Laidlaw have been sprouting isn't what's needed going to Paris to play a resurgent France. Take it from the worst favourites in world rugby, who conspired to lose yesterday!

 

[Saint4805]

Kind of my point, is beating a severely underperforming team really a sign of a return to the glory days? Yesterday wasn't much different to 2010 or 2013. It could be what finally gives them the confidence to win a game but what their media and Laidlaw have been sprouting isn't what's needed going to Paris to play a resurgent France. Take it from the worst favourites in world rugby, who conspired to lose yesterday!

Who said anything about a return to the glory days? You're just making stuff up.

We won against an underperforming side without our first choice props so there's plenty room for improvement.

 

[McTallshort]

You don't think we'll beat a Gatlandless Wales (at home) and an Italy side with nothing to play for in the last round of games?

On paper, yesterday was our second hardest game of the competition IMO.

No no it was your hardest game. To say otherwise is disrespectful

 

[Saint4805]

No no it was your hardest game. To say otherwise is disrespectful

I'm sure it is disrespectful in some quarters and Never Never Land.

 

[Will]

Kind of my point, is beating a severely underperforming team really a sign of a return to the glory days? Yesterday wasn't much different to 2010 or 2013. It could be what finally gives them the confidence to win a game but what their media and Laidlaw have been sprouting isn't what's needed going to Paris to play a resurgent France. Take it from the worst favourites in world rugby, who conspired to lose yesterday!

1. Can you give any examples of anyone suggesting it's a return to the 'glory days'?
2. Can you give any examples of what Laidlaw and 'their media' have apparently been "sprouting" that seems to have caught your ire?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Who said anything about a return to the glory days? You're just making stuff up.

We won against an underperforming side without our first choice props so there's plenty room for improvement.

"New Scotland" is everywhere Laidlaw said it, I'm reading that as "we're back" and I hope you are, it'll make yesterday slightly easier to stomach but Scotland have beaten underperforming sides in the past and nothing has come of it. If you lose next week you'll be playing your bogey team in R3 who'll either be the only team left chasing the grand slam or absolutely livid after losing at home to England and very wary of what happened to Ireland in this fixture. The reaction is too big for me and having watched it over and over in Ireland I worry for you.

Ignore the troll anyway if you think that's still a load of bull!

 

[Goodey]

'I insist that everyone be unhappy with this match as I am'

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm not angry or anything, I've just come to the fast realisation that a group of 20 somethings being constantly talked up and worshipped in the media is a surefire way for them to stop putting in the required effort, it seems to happen every other year over here.

 

[corny]

I would have thought new Scotland is fair. In times passed they'd have found a way to lose that. Nothing wrong with optimism.

 

[Will]

Sorry Alpha but you're just coming across as fairly bitter about yesterday. If you knew anything about the Scottish character you'd know it's not in our nature to start assuming we are something special or all of a sudden going to achieve great things. I don't know why it would upset you so to see the Scottish team show some confidence and self belief however.
And the fact that some the press may be making a big deal of it is irrelevant as that's what the press do. I don't doubt the Irish press are doing their own harsh post mortem on the Ireland side after yesterday though that hardly means that Ireland are now a poor team all of a sudden and that they can't come back from a loss.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Disappoited yes, bitter no. We lost to the better side on the day. Unfortunately our media is way too soft on our players after what was our most crushing loss since the RWC If I can leave it as a mere reflection of our media reacting to one off wins and the optimism and expectation that follows not doing anyone any favours then I will, if not call me bitter, a sore loser etc... but I have never said anything was undeserved. I'm done with this thread anyway.

Well done, enjoy the win and good luck in your remaining games.

 

[Goodey]

Ultimately who cares about what the press has to say. I thought we were here so as we don't have to read Woodward or Telfer or whatever ********.

 

[mosfeldt]

Best's throwing can be so dodgy at times - why wasn't Cronin on the bench?

Man I am very disappointed. It was a good Scottish performance, and I am happy for them. Would much rather lose to them than England or Wales Plus they needed and deserved a win. But at the same time I don't feel Ireland lost because Scotland were so good. Perhaps this is taking a bit of credit away from Scotland, but our first half performance was a disgrace. The boys were asleep. If Ireland had played the way they SHOULD play, ie most of the 2nd half, I think the result would've been a lot more one sided. We are much better than this, and frankly I'm just a bit shocked that after such a strong Autumn we opened so poorly. So poorly. You can argue the lack of Sexton and Payne but tbh I think Jackson is a very apt 2nd choice... Payne was missed alright but realistically he is not our long term option for centre. It's unfortunate for Ringrose to have such a start like this but I know in time he will grow.

I'm bummed. The championship is still up for grabs and if England's performance yesterday was anything to go by I think we have a realistic chance of winning. However not winning a slam always bursts the bubble a little bit. Of course I'd be delighted to win the Championship, but, the slam... Sure that's sport for ya I suppose.

All in all I hope that this really is a new Scotland, and not just Scotland putting away an under-performing side before reverting back to their old ways. It's great for the tournament and I'm personally delighted for Scotland. They have always been my 2nd team to root for. If they make it in the top 3 this year I would be so happy for them!

Not much else to say apart from sigh some more and look at Wales in 2013 for inspiration. Though that I said I put a few cheeky quid on Italy to win today, that would blow this tournament wide open!

Just watching the highlights now - does anyone else feel embarrassed when Ireland are caught out at wide so easily? RWC 2015, Oz last year, Scotland now... I can't help but cringe a little bit, our wingers are ****e defensively (bar Trimble)

 

[corny]

Best's throwing can be so dodgy at times - why wasn't Cronin on the bench?

Man I am very disappointed. It was a good Scottish performance, and I am happy for them. Would much rather lose to them than England or Wales Plus they needed and deserved a win. But at the same time I don't feel Ireland lost because Scotland were so good. Perhaps this is taking a bit of credit away from Scotland, but our first half performance was a disgrace. The boys were asleep. If Ireland had played the way they SHOULD play, ie most of the 2nd half, I think the result would've been a lot more one sided. We are much better than this, and frankly I'm just a bit shocked that after such a strong Autumn we opened so poorly. So poorly. You can argue the lack of Sexton and Payne but tbh I think Jackson is a very apt 2nd choice... Payne was missed alright but realistically he is not our long term option for centre. It's unfortunate for Ringrose to have such a start like this but I know in time he will grow.

I'm bummed. The championship is still up for grabs and if England's performance yesterday was anything to go by I think we have a realistic chance of winning. However not winning a slam always bursts the bubble a little bit. Of course I'd be delighted to win the Championship, but, the slam... Sure that's sport for ya I suppose.

All in all I hope that this really is a new Scotland, and not just Scotland putting away an under-performing side before reverting back to their old ways. It's great for the tournament and I'm personally delighted for Scotland. They have always been my 2nd team to root for. If they make it in the top 3 this year I would be so happy for them!

Not much else to say apart from sigh some more and look at Wales in 2013 for inspiration. Though that I said I put a few cheeky quid on Italy to win today, that would blow this tournament wide open!

Just watching the highlights now - does anyone else feel embarrassed when Ireland are caught out at wide so easily? RWC 2015, Oz last year, Scotland now... I can't help but cringe a little bit, our wingers are ****e defensively (bar Trimble)

Cronin is injured.

Just looking at the stats. Scotland made 242 tackles. The Gray brothers made 50 tackles between them. Thats half what the French 23 were forced to make in the second game. Crazy stuff.

The missed tackles are interesting too. Ireland only missed 9 in the game. Thats really good but the 9 led to points. Scotland missed 32.

 

[Jockstap]

Our lineout lost us that game yesterday. I was surprised to hear that according to this article (http://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysis-irelands-deteriorating-lineout/) we had statistically the worst performing line out in the Six Nations last year and in the autumn internationals. So we've gone from having the best line out in the competition under Plumtree, to where we are now with Easterby. Now combine that with the fact that the majority of our points come from lineout set pieces(according to Muray Kinsella), now might be the time to start panicking.

 

[munstermuffin]

Our lineout lost us that game yesterday. I was surprised to hear that according to this article (http://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysis-irelands-deteriorating-lineout/) we had statistically the worst performing line out in the Six Nations last year and in the autumn internationals. So we've gone from having the best line out in the competition under Plumtree, to where we are now with Easterby. Now combine that with the fact that the majority of our points come from lineout set pieces(according to Muray Kinsella), now might be the time to start panicking.

On this bigger issue was we have less options. Henderson wasn't even used as jumper yesterday so realistically at height you went from 3 natural lineout jumpers - Toner, POC/Ryan and POM to 1 yesterday in Toner.
Add in Best darts have declined.
And in Ryan and POM you have 2 of best defensive lineout guys this year in European rugby out.
Many things thatball added up are recipe for decline

 

[Jockstap]

So do you think Ryan and POM would have started were they fit?

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

I felt yesterday's performance show's how much Ireland missed Johnny Sexton. Don't think Paddy Jackson was your answer for the 10 jersey yesterday, and was surprised he was the first choice 10 especially after the last time he played Scotland at Murrayfield...

After a brilliant first half from Scotland thought it would be embarrassing if we lost the game. I still cannot understand how Scotland can have 2 completely different half's and its really bugging me that consistency is still a problem for us. Despite us having the best depth for players than we ever had in a long time, having players that can cover in just about in every position. How can we not keep our performance levels for the whole game ?

 

[corny]

So do you think Ryan and POM would have started were they fit?

Ryan was fit. He trained all week. It was good enough for SOB. Even if he had been completely injury free i think Schmidt would have gone with Henderson. Not that i agree with that mind you.

You've all missed the main reason why Ireland are less proficient at the lineout under Easterby.....No Paul O' Connell.

- - - Updated - - -

After a brilliant first half from Scotland thought it would be embarrassing if we lost the game. I still cannot understand how Scotland can have 2 completely different half's and its really bugging me that consistency is still a problem for us. Despite us having the best depth for players than we ever had in a long time, having players that can cover in just about in every position. How can we not keep our performance levels for the whole game ?

I think you're doing your team a disservice. Ireland were passive in the first half and ferocious in the second. You have to factor that in. Far from dropping performance Scotland did well to keep up the intensity for 80.

 

[munstermuffin]

Don't think either would have started as Schmidt I think has his mind made up on pack a long way out. But that is big reason for lineout. With less options it's easier to predict.
Like yesterday lets give Scottish credit. The 2 Grays did superb abd the more is see of J Gray the more I see of a starting Lion. And he's developing nicely as captain material too.

The big issue I have is Henderson. Again I'm huge fan but he has struggled at lock big time. He hasn't built an engine and I think he gets frustrated as he's a destructive carrier but looses that part of his game as being in 2nd row drains your legs alot more regarding scrums etc