[2016 Super Rugby] Stormers vs. Brumbies (Round 4) 19/03/2016

[TRF_stormer2010]

1 single punch even if it misses can (should) be red carded though according to the letter of the law.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I wouldn't have given that. Lleyds said he lost control so why not take him up on it?

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Where's @smartcooky when you need him?!

Control is not a requirement. The question was wether or not he was in contact with the ball and applying downward pressure.

I dont think he did even that since from what i saw he didnt only lose control of the ball but the ball itself, which would mean knock on.

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1 single punch even if it misses can (should) be red carded though according to the letter of the law.

I agree with that, but JP said while they were waiting for the 3/4th replay, and well after the punch had been established, something along the lines of "if i see you elbowing him it's a red, otherwise it's a yellow".

I do not understand why 3 straight punches only merit a yellow card, but, after what JP said and while watching the 3/4th replay, i thought it was going to be a yellow.

Think we're on the same page.

Btw, i believe congrats are in order, kudos.

 

[saulan]

I predicted a tight loss earlier this week, so really chugged with this response from the team. The first half was boring but they stepped up the pressure in the second half and kept the Brumbies back in their half and got the result. Well played to whoever came up with the tactics with this match.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

TBH I think Peyper opting for yellow up till the TMO almost forcing his hand was a bit of a cop out on the part of Peyper and he was being too lenient but was influenced by the crowd, the TMO and De Jongh being up in his face. Right call at the end of the day but the wrong lead up IMO from both the ref who should've backed himself once he made a decision IMO and the TMO who stepped over the line (or has the protocol changed that I'm unaware of?).

On Lleyds' try. I cannot see a clear seperation though I'm not saying what I don't see didn't occur. I think it depends on what wording the ref used in referral. The question in my mind is did Lleyds think he didn't score because he lost control or lost the ball fully. Did Peyper refer the try because he saw something and felt Lleyds was being ignorant of the law? We'd have to ask the player and Peyper though. I am of the opinion though that if a player says he didn't score lets just take his word for it. Now Lleyds comes across looking naive whereas he was only trying to be honest which is something I feel needs to be encouraged in sport in general. It'd also have helped with cutting down on the constant TMO referals.

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At the end of the day we played cleverly and it worked because our kicking game was stronger as well as our set piece on the whole. We played the percentages, took our points and got away with a win. Brumbies' frustration on the back of that and a good defensive effort cost them a chance.

 

[0tago]

Stormers definitely benefited from hom reffing. They were offside and holding on all game

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But the red card was red card IMO and law of the game.

 

[Jaguares]

MOTM: Jaco Peyper
Honorable Mention: The TMO

 

[Icemn]

MOTM should go to supersport for replaying every single "foul play" on behalf of the brumbies over and over and over for the newlands crowd to go "boooooooo".... Newlands stadium makes me sick just as pathetic as their one dimensional fans. Not to mention Jaco Peyper, what a piece of work! Brumbies had no chance against supersport and jp!

 

[smartcooky]

There have been some God awful Referee's and TMO decisions this weekend, and the one under discussion here was one of them.

There is no way that was a try. There was clear separation between ball and hand before the ball was grounded. The ruling should have been knock on in goal by attacking team. 5m scrum, Brumbies throw-in.

The Red Card however, was a good decision - an elbow to the face followed by punch in the head is always a red card in my book.

 

[saulan]

There have been some God awful Referee's and TMO decisions this weekend, and the one under discussion here was one of them.

There is no way that was a try. There was clear separation between ball and hand before the ball was grounded. The ruling should have been knock on in goal by attacking team. 5m scrum, Brumbies throw-in.

The Red Card however, was a good decision - an elbow to the face followed by punch in the head is always a red card in my book.

Actually it would have been taken back for the penalty for offside by the Brumbies, but still agree it wasn't a try.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The Red Card however, was a good decision - an elbow to the face followed by punch in the head is always a red card in my book.

The decision was correct, but when judging the performance of a judge, i think we should, when possible, also take into account how he arrived to that decision.
The conversation between the the ref and the TMO is surprising to say the least: "the only thing i wanna see is whether your elbow connects with his face, then i'm going to go red, otherwise it's yellow". That phrase comes after it is well established and acknowledged by both the ref and the TMO that several punches had been thrown.

Video of the incident and conversation here: https://streamable.com/yu9k

 

[smartcooky]

Actually it would have been taken back for the penalty for offside by the Brumbies, but still agree it wasn't a try.

Yeah, I was simply speaking about that general scenario, and not what happened before.

 

[0tago]

There have been some God awful Referee's and TMO decisions this weekend, and the one under discussion here was one of them.

There is no way that was a try. There was clear separation between ball and hand before the ball was grounded. The ruling should have been knock on in goal by attacking team. 5m scrum, Brumbies throw-in.

The Red Card however, was a good decision - an elbow to the face followed by punch in the head is always a red card in my book.

This whole season there has been and there were some terrible ones last season and the season before and before etc and it's all to the point it's completely deciding where teams sit in the competition. It's not good enough and some of it is really borderline cheating. Something needs to be done, fines, expulsion or something along those lines from officiating games.

I know there's an issue attracting people to become professional officials (the criticism they receive and abuse), so perhaps more support and pay should become an option to make it a better career option and attract better quality that see it as a viable career option, because right now what we have is a couple of guys sitting up in the TMO box having beers and making decisions while they're drunk and bias and if not, that's definitely what it seems like and it's really hindering the progression of the sports quality and trying to get people to take it seriously.

 

[smartcooky]

This whole season there has been and there were some terrible ones last season and the season before and before etc and it's all to the point it's completely deciding where teams sit in the competition. It's not good enough and some of it is really borderline cheating. Something needs to be done, fines, expulsion or something along those lines from officiating games.

I know there's an issue attracting people to become professional officials (the criticism they receive and abuse), so perhaps more support and pay should become an option to make it a better career option and attract better quality that see it as a viable career option, because right now what we have is a couple of guys sitting up in the TMO box having beers and making decisions while they're drunk and bias and if not, that's definitely what it seems like and it's really hindering the progression of the sports quality and trying to get people to take it seriously.

OTT mate, I find your comments distatsteful

There is no evidence that the TMO's are drunk or cheating or biased. That is just pure hyperbolic rubbish. Sure there have been bad decisions, but players make bad decisions too and people don't accuse them of drunkenness or cheating.

I also think your comments cloud some of the real issues. Many of the TMO's are ex-referees who have either not made the grade as a match official in the middle or have retire. There are a couple of really good TMO's, for example, Graham Hughes of England, Shaun Veldsman of South Africa and Vinny Munro of New Zealand (and even they make the odd mistake from time to time) but there are also some shockers, not least of whom is George Ayoub. That guy should never be let near a TMO box, he has produced some absolute howlers in his time.

It is worth noting that the NRL has introduced an offsite "bunker" arrangement similar to that used in the NFL.

It uses ex players and ex referees to make decisions.

IMO, this is the way forward for Rugby Union as well.

 

[0tago]

OTT mate, I find your comments distatsteful

There is no evidence that the TMO's are drunk or cheating or biased. That is just pure hyperbolic rubbish. Sure there have been bad decisions, but players make bad decisions too and people don't accuse them of drunkenness or cheating.

I also think your comments cloud some of the real issues. Many of the TMO's are ex-referees who have either not made the grade as a match official in the middle or have retire. There are a couple of really good TMO's, for example, Graham Hughes of England, Shaun Veldsman of South Africa and Vinny Munro of New Zealand (and even they make the odd mistake from time to time) but there are also some shockers, not least of whom is George Ayoub. That guy should never be let near a TMO box, he has produced some absolute howlers in his time.

It is worth noting that the NRL has introduced an offsite "bunker" arrangement similar to that used in the NFL.

It uses ex players and ex referees to make decisions.

IMO, this is the way forward for Rugby Union as well.

Apologies to speak in such manner and suggest such, but that is the level of frustration that is gathering after repetitive poor decisions. There have been some outrageous decisions that are not acceptable on a professional level in such a high profile sport that requires accuracy. It's a requirement for players careers, teams futures and coaches and personnel staff involved, that the officials make their best honest effort to get these decisions right. I can honestly say I have seen far higher accuracy in amateur games, lower end league games and tournament games than I had seen in one of the worlds most premier leagues, if not the best (quality in terms of the sport) franchise/club leagues.

It's really of concern how poor it is and we're only 4 rounds in and so many results have been influenced by complete incompetence. Once again apologies for the certain lanauge I chose to express those frutrations, but that shouldn't deflect from the level of incompetence that's clearly visible in nearly EVERY game.

 

[austingtir]

^^ Agreed.

I was ranting on like this last year not just about the officiating but the PCness of it all.


The Highlanders would most likely be 4 - 0 and topping the NZ conference quite handily right now had it not been for Glenn Jackson (TWICE)....... I still think his officiating was highly dubious although im not sure he cheated outright it was just bloody weird how he officiated that first game. It really did smell of something fishy to me.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

MOTM should go to supersport for replaying every single "foul play" on behalf of the brumbies over and over and over for the newlands crowd to go "boooooooo".... Newlands stadium makes me sick just as pathetic as their one dimensional fans. Not to mention Jaco Peyper, what a piece of work! Brumbies had no chance against supersport and jp!

Really? I see that chip is still firm in place.

So I take it you condone Man-Rea's assault?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I can understand the ref/TMO missing something. It is a fast paced sport.
I can understand some plays where the ref/TMO disagree with viewers about what we see (some plays come down to a cm and the best we can do is have an educated guess).
What i cannot understand, is a ref/TMO who see, recognize and acknowledge a player punching another one several times, and calmly affirm that such action only merits a yellow card.

It is reasonable for people to disagree if one of the parties didn't see something or if they disagree on what they saw. Basically, they disagree on what happened, the facts. But this case, it is clear that the referee saw what happened, and just had a particular interpretation about what the penalty for the infraction should be. That is simply not good enough and needs to be corrected.
Two refs who see the same facts should come up with the same call.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Brumbies always come to Cape Town and play dirty, glad they got hammered