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You put me in a tough spot H. I blame ourselves for the loss but i can easily understand the people's frustration.
Most people keep saying that the reds were deserved and i agree. The problem is that every other week we see comparable instances (specially for the 1st red) where such plays do not receive a red card. The problem appears to be consistency. The penalty try against us is another crystal clear example. Jaguares' scrum has been collapsed by the opposition over and over again over the season and we were never awarded a penalty try.
We commit one penalty and are punished with a penalty try. The sharks committed 3 on a row against us and no penalty try nor a yellow card was given because of that.
I was watching the etzebeth vs de jager wrestling contest yesterday and couldn't help thinking "Both players deliberately use their hands on each others' eyes area. That is foul play as per the laws of the game." Both were merely told "don't do that again". Once more, deliberately using your hands on an opponents eye area (does not have to be the eye) constitutes foul play (regulation 17, i remember this one from our wc game against the ABs).
Here is a picture. De jager's face and Etzebeth's hand/fingers.
Deliberate use of fingers near the eye and/or eye area. People have been carded, cited and suspended for less.
The frustration comes from the fact in some instances the ref gives out a red card while in others he just calls what the laws of the game describe as foul play "south african fun".
So where you see how strict the refs are with foul play, other people see how refs are very strict with some cases and very lenient with others. Again, consistency.
Another example: Cane's elbow charge against Tetaz Chaparro
http://www.newshub.co.nz/sport/vide...kle-on-jaguares-prop-2016032016#axzz4A7siQcXZ
No red card. From the article:
Upon further review of the match footage, the citing commissioner deemed in his opinion the incident had met the red card threshold for foul play.
So you have two comparable plays:
-A jaguares player clears a ruck with a shoulder charge. He gets red carded, cited and suspended for two games.
-A chief's player elbow charges a jaguares player to clear a ruck. He doesn't get red carded, the citing commissioner says he believes it should have been a red card, he gets cited and does not get suspended.
So when you claim that they've been very strict with foul play i can see how other people might ask, what are you talking about?
One last stat. Lets discount the two red cards from the penalty list as they were rightfully awarded. That's 10 penalties committed by the jaguares to 14 by the kings. Out of those 10, one ended up on a penalty try and another one in a yellow card against us. The kings 14 penalties ended up in nothing of the sort. To add injury to insult, you then had some pundits claiming that the ref lost his temper because of the ridiculous amount of penalties we've committed... That's what frustrates people.
Once more, i believe we have to blame ourselves for this loss, but i can easily see and understand why some people are frustrated.
Post #98 and #76 might help then. The frustration is not about the red cards themselves.I honestly can't see why there is even anger or frustration with regard to the 2 red cards.
Most people keep saying that the reds were deserved and i agree. The problem is that every other week we see comparable instances (specially for the 1st red) where such plays do not receive a red card. The problem appears to be consistency. The penalty try against us is another crystal clear example. Jaguares' scrum has been collapsed by the opposition over and over again over the season and we were never awarded a penalty try.
We commit one penalty and are punished with a penalty try. The sharks committed 3 on a row against us and no penalty try nor a yellow card was given because of that.
I guess that's more an opinion than a fact.During this whole Super Rugby tournament we've seen how strict the referees are with foul play
I was watching the etzebeth vs de jager wrestling contest yesterday and couldn't help thinking "Both players deliberately use their hands on each others' eyes area. That is foul play as per the laws of the game." Both were merely told "don't do that again". Once more, deliberately using your hands on an opponents eye area (does not have to be the eye) constitutes foul play (regulation 17, i remember this one from our wc game against the ABs).
Here is a picture. De jager's face and Etzebeth's hand/fingers.
Deliberate use of fingers near the eye and/or eye area. People have been carded, cited and suspended for less.
The frustration comes from the fact in some instances the ref gives out a red card while in others he just calls what the laws of the game describe as foul play "south african fun".
So where you see how strict the refs are with foul play, other people see how refs are very strict with some cases and very lenient with others. Again, consistency.
Another example: Cane's elbow charge against Tetaz Chaparro
http://www.newshub.co.nz/sport/vide...kle-on-jaguares-prop-2016032016#axzz4A7siQcXZ
No red card. From the article:
Upon further review of the match footage, the citing commissioner deemed in his opinion the incident had met the red card threshold for foul play.
So you have two comparable plays:
-A jaguares player clears a ruck with a shoulder charge. He gets red carded, cited and suspended for two games.
-A chief's player elbow charges a jaguares player to clear a ruck. He doesn't get red carded, the citing commissioner says he believes it should have been a red card, he gets cited and does not get suspended.
So when you claim that they've been very strict with foul play i can see how other people might ask, what are you talking about?
One last stat. Lets discount the two red cards from the penalty list as they were rightfully awarded. That's 10 penalties committed by the jaguares to 14 by the kings. Out of those 10, one ended up on a penalty try and another one in a yellow card against us. The kings 14 penalties ended up in nothing of the sort. To add injury to insult, you then had some pundits claiming that the ref lost his temper because of the ridiculous amount of penalties we've committed... That's what frustrates people.
Once more, i believe we have to blame ourselves for this loss, but i can easily see and understand why some people are frustrated.