[2016 Rugby Championship] South Africa v New Zealand (08/10/2016)

[TheOvalBall]

Perenara to start, Aaron Smith suspended for 1 game after joining the Mile High Club...

Suspended for unethical conduct at Christchurch airport.

 

[eidde]

......

That means A. Smith back in for Perenara and I think Fekitoa will be reunited with Crotty in midfield. That potent back-3 combo of B. Smith, Draggz & Savea should also resume duty, and Barrett will be given a his 1st start as pivot for this occasion.......

OOH!!?? really? The poor bloke's been biding his time at prop and often off the bench for most of the RC.... and you think they'll suddenly throw him in at pivot? Brave, brave predictions my lad.

 

[Larksea]

Booooooooo... let the boys play I say

on an official trip wearing AB squad uniform took a girl (not his partner) into a disabled toilet and made a bunch of noise for 10min with obvious public outside and people filming/recording in on their phones.

kinda went beyond "boys being boys" unfortunately... Young sports people do need some slack sometimes but I think Smith has used all his up some time ago. 27 and a senior All Black now...

 

[die_mole]

on an official trip wearing AB squad uniform took a girl (not his partner) into a disabled toilet and made a bunch of noise for 10min with obvious public outside and people filming/recording in on their phones.

kinda went beyond "boys being boys" unfortunately... Young sports people do need some slack sometimes but I think Smith has used all his up some time ago. 27 and a senior All Black now...

which is worth of a game suspension?

seriously who cares what he was doing as long as the sex was consensual? adultery isn't a crime and the work place should not be punishing you for it

 

[The Jones Boy]

If thats what he did, in public, then he deserves whatever AB management give him.
Idiot.
When you're on AB time you are EXPECTED to behave like a quality role model.
If being an AB isn't that important to any player then continue to misbehave and you won't be an AB for much longer.
Because you will give up important game time to the next guy who will take the opportunity to cement his position in the starting line up.
Idiot.

 

[Larksea]

which is worth of a game suspension?

seriously who cares what he was doing as long as the sex was consensual? adultery isn't a crime and the work place should not be punishing you for it

what do you think the All Blacks sponsors like Adidas, Gatorade & AIG think about it? They spend millions of dollars to have their name associated with the All Blacks brand.

think of Nike dropping Tiger that is the sort of thing Smith is risking. But much more serious as it impacts the careers of hundreds of people not just himself.

probably not as big a deal if it was off season and he wasn't on an official All Blacks trip and he wasn't wearing official squad uniform.... But he was.

I kinda get what people are saying, part of me kinda laughs it off that was my initial feeling. But the reality is very different.

It is pretty obvious that being an All Blacks is a lot more than just being a great player. These guys are public figures, they are our greatest export. Many countries only know about NZ because of the success of the All Blacks. That is how they attract big international sponsors whose target market is more than just New Zealand.

IN the wake of all the bad press the AB's have had this year and the fact this isn't the first time hes made headlines I think Smith needs to be made an example of. I would give him the rest of the year off in terms of All Black selection, leave him off the end of year tour. Sort out his affairs, he is obviously got some explaining to do with his partner and family. Keep clean and work your way back next year. We don't have a Lions tour or World Cup we need him for this year, pretty much all the silverware is in the cabinet already so its not like we desperately need him.

 

[nzlizard]

which is worth of a game suspension?

seriously who cares what he was doing as long as the sex was consensual? adultery isn't a crime and the work place should not be punishing you for it

It was the leadership team that came up with the punishment, they have a standard you are expected to adhere to when on AB duty and he broke it, not for the first or second time either.

So while he is on AB time work can punish him all they like, being a national sports figure you are expected to uphold values in public etc, and he didn't.

Sucks for us cause he is in the form of his life, but TJP will step up I have no doubt.

 

[die_mole]

what do you think the All Blacks sponsors like Adidas, Gatorade & AIG think about it? They spend millions of dollars to have their name associated with the All Blacks brand.

think of Nike dropping Tiger that is the sort of thing Smith is risking. But much more serious as it impacts the careers of hundreds of people not just himself.

probably not as big a deal if it was off season and he wasn't on an official All Blacks trip and he wasn't wearing official squad uniform.... But he was.

I kinda get what people are saying, part of me kinda laughs it off that was my initial feeling. But the reality is very different.

It is pretty obvious that being an All Blacks is a lot more than just being a great player. These guys are public figures, they are our greatest export. Many countries only know about NZ because of the success of the All Blacks.

IN the wake of all the bad press the AB's have had this year and the fact this isn't the first time hes made headlines I think Smith needs to be made an example of. I would give him the rest of the year off in terms of All Black selection, leave him off the end of year tour. Sort out his affairs, he is obviously got some explaining to do with his partner and family. Keep clean and work your way back next year. We don't have a Lions tour or World Cup we need him for this year, pretty much all the silverware is in the cabinet already so its not like we desperately need him.

Sponsors only care cause people care, the board of directors only care because they fear people like you will stop buying their stuff

Sponsors care about money, not the morality of the issue

- - - Updated - - -

It was the leadership team that came up with the punishment, they have a standard you are expected to adhere to when on AB duty and he broke it, not for the first or second time either.

So while he is on AB time work can punish him all they like, being a national sports figure you are expected to uphold values in public etc, and he didn't.

Sucks for us cause he is in the form of his life, but TJP will step up I have no doubt.

and the leadership are stuck up pricks... notice how i said should not instead of cannot

 

[Larksea]

Sponsors only care cause people care, the board of directors only care because they fear people like you will stop buying their stuff

Sponsors care about money, not the morality of the issue

That's a fairly narrow minded view.

Sponsors care about image. That is what they are paying for.

A big sponsor bay look at an incident like this and think it would be better for their image to withdraw their sponsorship. Doing so may improve their public approval.

I don't necessarily believe any sponsors are going to withdraw but incidents like this do affect the Image of the brand and how desirable it is. Potential future sponsors may look at this and decide not to make a bid or to bid less. Or a Current sponsor may decide not to renew a deal. Its not an impact that will be instantly obvious but over time something like this could cost millions in future deals, more if other incidents come up... 2 or 3 things like this come up in a year and the All Blacks could find themselves seriously out of pocket.

 

[die_mole]

That's a fairly narrow minded view.

Sponsors care about image. That is what they are paying for.

A big sponsor bay look at an incident like this and think it would be better for their image to withdraw their sponsorship. Doing so may improve their public approval.

I don't necessarily believe any sponsors are going to withdraw but incidents like this do affect the Image of the brand and how desirable it is. Potential future sponsors may look at this and decide not to make a bid or to bid less. Or a Current sponsor may decide not to renew a deal. Its not an impact that will be instantly obvious but over time something like this could cost millions in future deals, more if other incidents come up... 2 or 3 things like this come up in a year and the All Blacks could find themselves seriously out of pocket.

image of the brand is important because they need the image to be marketable to people (who have money that they spend on the sponsors products)... if people don't care about this the sponsors don't care about it

why do you think sponsors spend the amount of money that they do?
they do it cause they think their revenues will increase by an amount greater than the cost of the sponsorship

Also Nike never dropped Tiger Woods, they still sponsor him to this day

 

[Larksea]

Also Nike never dropped Tiger Woods, they still sponsor him to this day

sorry true, Nike was one that stayed, but he did lose more than 20million a year worth of sponsorship from his "off course activities" he lost more than 3 major endorsements.

do you think Nike have increased or decreased their sponsorship with him since?

all up his shagging around probably cost him 100million or more.... So my point stands.

 

[Ospervat]

Forgive me if i just mention stuff that constantly get repeated.
Under HM we had a pretty good win record. Then the fans thought "hey!we are winning but it can be better" So everyone pushed for expansive rugby. HM came and went and now we have come full circle with AC . Winning is the most important he does not care about the style change we have been working on for the last 5 years. We have made no progress in the last cycle and are back where we came from. I dont know if im happy about just accepting wins again and throwing away progress made in the last few years. The issue stems from taking risks. By taking risks the product looks more attractive but we risk exposing our defence too much. Under AC you will see we will kick the ball into opposition territory from our own 10-5m line. This puts the opposition under immense pressure but also gifts them possession over and over for them to keep trying to pick the holes in the defence.
We should really be trying to run from deeper. I dont buy this stuff from AC that says expansive rugby is just a fairy tale its just how risky your approach is.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Rugb...nning-more-important-than-how-we-win-20161003

Let's get back on message.

I agree with the above article completely - the style of playing not to lose is outdated.

The running game, holding possession and exploiting weak defenders is the key to winning in the the future not kicking away your possession and hoping your opposition makes a disciplinary mistake so you can slot 3 points.

Statistically the following does not make for good reading

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats?gameId=281089&league=244293

SA are on a hiding to nothing if they persist with this strategy.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I've added the AB's team and the referee to the OP.

Bok team will be announced at 13:00 local time today.

 

[Sotavalta]

This is the team I think AC is going to choose

1 Beast
2 Strauss
3 Adriaanse
4 Etzebeth
5 PSDT
6 Louw
7 Mohoje
8 Whiteley
9 De Klerk
10 Steyn
11 Habana
12 de Jongh
13 Kriel
14 Hougaard
15 Lambie

 

[TheOvalBall]

OFFICIAL team for Saturday

15. Pat Lambie
14. Francois Hougaard
13. Juan de Jongh
12. Damian de Allende
11. Bryan Habana
10. Morne Steyn
9. Faf de Klerk
8. Warren Whiteley
7. Oupa Mohoje
6. Francois Louw
5. Pieter-Steph du Toit
4. Eben Etzebeth
3. Vincent Koch
2. Adriaan Strauss (captain)
1. Tendai Mtawarira

Replacements:
16. Bongi Mbonambi
17. Steven Kitshoff
18. Julian Redelinghuys
19. Lood de Jager
20. Willem Alberts
21. Jaco Kriel
22. Lionel Mapoe
23. Willie le Roux

 

[TRF_heineken]

Added the line-up to the OP.

That backline looks a bit more balanced to me that it did in the past. I'm very curious to see what kind of partnership Faf and Morne has on the field as 9 and 10 for the match. The last time they played together was the last 5 minutes against Argentina in Salta.

De Allende at 12 and De Jongh at 13 will also make a good combo, I just hope De Allende has better form than in the past.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Sponsors care about image.

Which is, exactly, what mole said: "Sponsors only care cause people care".
I can give you a plethora of examples where sponsorships haven't been dropped for what would be widely considered "bad behaviour" and the reason was, in 99% of the cases, because the targeted audience did not care. Think of people like mourinho (eye gouging from behind an opponent's team assistan coach who happened to be a cancer patient, in the middle of a game), the overwhelming majority of rock/punk/hip hop stars, Carlos Tevez, Balotelli... the list is endless.

It is very insincere to judge the players personal life's s with such standards. I for one don't watch rugby(nor any other sport) looking for role models. They are kids, premature millionaires who've had a camera aiming at them 24/7 since they were young.

 

[George Ford]

Not sure what AC has up his sleeve with the backs reshuffling, but on paper it looks like a mauling by the ABs. What chance would Hougaard have of stopping Naholo given enough space out wide, or even 5 meters out? Dagg always seemed to have 1 up on Habana even if they never played directly opposite each other. Think De Jongh is a good choice to combat ALB. De Allende is being handed a solid opportunity to cement his position as 12 against arguably the best 12 in the world in Crotty.
Ditto for de Klerk who is also handed a gift of having faced 2 very different yet potently world-class halfbacks in Perenara & Smith in the same season. Perenara more physical IMO, but I think Faf will be more cool partnering with the likes of Steyn.

 

[petite]

question:
i read several times people talking about aaron smith partner.
why is it? it´s that aaron is gay? is she his wife, girl friend? in spanish if you call it partner means the person is gay.

 

[die_mole]

question:
i read several times people talking about aaron smith partner.
why is it? it´s that aaron is gay? is she his wife, girl friend? in spanish if you call it partner means the person is gay.

haha, same thing in the united states... i know some people have started to use the term partner to mean long time boyfriend or girlfriend, similar to gays in the United States before they were allowed to be married