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[2016 Rugby Championship] Australia v South Africa (10/09/2016)

Firstly i really like Hougaard. But why bench Faf he has been one of our more consistent performers and he plays the style that we want to achieve as a team. We used to play a very technical game ( which has been thoroughly discussed on here) And we used to win most of our matches like this, under HM we won a lot and the rugby was something to be proud of. It also favoured us at world cups as this is the rugby you should play in the knockout stages. But everyone recognized the need for us to evolve our style to be able to dominate again. We have started that process now and things are not looking good. Dont go falling back to the tried and trusted such as picking Morne again. Morne wont play in the next world cup. Lets rather have a few losses with young fly halves building towards the world cup than playing with old guys until they decide to leave us out in the cold with no succession plans in place.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't like the idea of taking a few losses. EVER! This is the Springboks and one loss in my books, is one too many. We shouldn't drop our standard.

I do agree with you on Faf though, I'd keep playing him, of all the guys in the squad, he's been the most on form and has been performing in every game. For the first time, in a very long time we have a crisis at fly half, but we all know it is a temporary setback. Especially now that Lambie is back and doing field training for the first time this week after the concussion blow.

Why not give Morne one start? What's the worst that can happen?
 
I think Hougaard's a better 9. I think Faf get's brainfarts every now and then, like the quicktap in the last game infront of the poles.On the 10's, we have our first choice 10 injured(Handre). Clearly Elton's not the answer. I'm not sure Goosen is either, but as a stand-in he'll do. Reason I would start Morne, is that we need to kickstart our winning again. He's got a cool head, helped the team win previously. We had our few losses.

PS: Not saying bench Faf all the time, just one game.....smack him in the face.
 
I think Hougaard's a better 9. I think Faf get's brainfarts every now and then, like the quicktap in the last game infront of the poles.On the 10's, we have our first choice 10 injured(Handre). Clearly Elton's not the answer. I'm not sure Goosen is either, but as a stand-in he'll do. Reason I would start Morne, is that we need to kickstart our winning again. He's got a cool head, helped the team win previously. We had our few losses.

PS: Not saying bench Faf all the time, just one game.....smack him in the face.

I disagree, Hougaard is a much better wing than a scrumhalf in my opinion. He never really stood out and when he did play for the Boks as scrummie he seemed ineffectual as a runner and had issues with his kicks from what I remember (perhaps being forced to play not his natural game). I miss the days of him on the wing though. I remember him coming off the bench in a WC match as a wing and just setting things alight.

Faf is our best player, he does not warrant being dropped.
 
Urgh Morne.

He doesn't play for the bulls anymore, I don't get it guys. Surely we've got better options :(

Feels like 2012 again, just start Goose at 10 and we'll win all our games, including the ones against the ABs ;)
 
I disagree, Hougaard is a much better wing than a scrumhalf in my opinion. He never really stood out and when he did play for the Boks as scrummie he seemed ineffectual as a runner and had issues with his kicks from what I remember (perhaps being forced to play not his natural game). I miss the days of him on the wing though. I remember him coming off the bench in a WC match as a wing and just setting things alight.

Faf is our best player, he does not warrant being dropped.

TBF, when he played Scrumhalf for us and the Bulls, it was a very conservative gameplan and he couldn't play his natural game. To me, he's great in both positions, but I think we should give him a go at 9 and see if he plays with the same form as he played for Worcester Warriors
 
^^ This.....

Heynecke wanted Hougie to copy Fourie Du Preez' kicking game, nobody can do that.
 
^^ This.....

Heynecke wanted Hougie to copy Fourie Du Preez' kicking game, nobody can do that.

I'm aware of that, as I made a comment of that in my post, but I don't know of his form overseas this year and what style of play he has actually been playing, and I think that is the case of most of the South African public. I definitely want him to be on the bench and I would like to see how he is playing currently, but I don't think he warrants a Faf bench drop. Keep in mind that most of our NH based players have been terrible this year for the Boks, I am wary of that being the case for Hougaard as well.
 
Urgh Morne.

He doesn't play for the bulls anymore, I don't get it guys. Surely we've got better options :(

Feels like 2012 again, just start Goose at 10 and we'll win all our games, including the ones against the ABs ;)

Our options are:

Morne Steyn
Johan Goosen
Elton Jantjies
Tiaan Schoeman
Niel Marais
Marnitz Boshoff
Garth April
Robert Du Preez
Francois Brummer

it's not really much of a contest now is it??
 
Our options are:

Morne Steyn
Johan Goosen
Elton Jantjies
Tiaan Schoeman
Niel Marais
Marnitz Boshoff
Garth April
Robert Du Preez
Francois Brummer

it's not really much of a contest now is it??

On that note, what happened to Garth April? I saw that there was a young guy playing flyhalf for the Sharks on the weekend (Radebe?) who played quite well, but I was confused by his lack of appearance (granted I don't particularly follow their injuries...)
 
My preferred Backline for Australia would be this
15. J.Kriel
14. F.Hougaard
13. De Jongh (Anybody other than Mapoe, dont like De Jongh either)
12. De Allende
11. B.Habana
10. J.Goosen

The Backline we need to beat the All Blacks
15. Lambie
14. Combrinck
13. Kriel/ Goosen
12. R.Janse van rensburg
11. Habana
10. Pollard

- - - Updated - - -

On that note, what happened to Garth April? I saw that there was a young guy playing flyhalf for the Sharks on the weekend (Radebe?) who played quite well, but I was confused by his lack of appearance (granted I don't particularly follow their injuries...)
The new guy Inny Radebe has been playing better than April and is keeping him out of the team.
 
We can only assume the reason why Elton is a doubter to start is due to his injury. If he is declared fit then he will definitely start as he has been given the mantle to wear 10 (at least until 1 of Lambie or Pollard recovers to full fitness). Other wise said, it would be a major blow to his already low confidence to bench him based on his performance so far this year.

That being said, if he won't start then he shouldn't feature at all and at least the Bok camp can shadow the reason for dropping him due to injury as well as giving more time to recover for next week's test against the ABs

However, I feel that Elton should still start (if fit). Sure he hasn't been incredibly instrumental, but neither erratic, and I think the same can be said for the rest of the team. A bigger issue for me has been our defense. The Irish were able to expose some lapses in the first 2 tests, and the Argies totally dismantled our lines with their tempo and flair over the last 2 tests.

Wouldn't really matter to me what style of play we want to play rather that of a positive attitude
 
Erm, the Boks are playing away. At Brisbane where we don't have a very good record at all.



How so? He played his best rugby for the Springboks in the fly half position, and the last time he played at fly half for the Boks against Australia, he was the MOTM.

Don't see why it is something to laugh at...

Cause he's been in poor form during the rugby championship when it comes to kicking out of hand and making decisions. His only plays have been from traditional back three situations.
 
Cause he's been in poor form during the rugby championship when it comes to kicking out of hand and making decisions. His only plays have been from traditional back three situations.

Surely you can't see his form as worse than Jantjies? Would you honestly rather have Jantjies play 10?
 
Cause he's been in poor form during the rugby championship when it comes to kicking out of hand and making decisions. His only plays have been from traditional back three situations.

What?? He played fullback!! His plays should all have been from traditional back 3 situations... What's the argument here???

As for kicking out of hand, he hardly kicked the ball, in fact, he only kicked 3 times out of hand. 2 for touch and one was a up-and-under which he regathered.
 
We can only hope, Goosen to save SA in 2016.

You heard it here first

EDIT:

1234 posts, do I get a reward? Some biltong? Any TRF members? Hein? Send me some fatty transvaal bees biltong
 
What?? He played fullback!! His plays should all have been from traditional back 3 situations... What's the argument here???

As for kicking out of hand, he hardly kicked the ball, in fact, he only kicked 3 times out of hand. 2 for touch and one was a up-and-under which he regathered.

The argument is that he hasn't exactly shown that he would be an improvement at fly half and that his best plays were not distributing or as first receiver. Something that isn't uncommon for international fly halfs.

- - - Updated - - -

Surely you can't see his form as worse than Jantjies? Would you honestly rather have Jantjies play 10?

I'd have them even right now but both behind Morne Steyn ... I can see why you'd want to change but I still think with the injuries you have goosen as fullback and m. Steyn at flyhalf is your best option.
i just think that goosen needs to be at fullback and you need to find a flyhalf.
 
Two fairly even teams. SA in transition, Australia are not, so I give them the nod on this. As I keep saying, I really don't think this Australia team is quite as bad as people think (admittedly, it is quite limited and the club form of the players has been poor). SA were fairly awful in the first half in Argentina with Faf & Jantjies kicking aimlessly for territory (which as others more knowledgeable above have suggested isn't their strong suit). However, I thought the team showed quite a bit of promise in the second half, admittedly against a banged up Argentina. They scored two fairly expansive tries (one an absolute beauty) and could have had a third with de Allende. To do that in one half, away from home, against a top team indicates there are signs of life in the Boks.

The ongoing decision for SA seems to be how to combine selecting the most in form players (often from the Lions) and marry that to a non-Lions gameplan; essentially asking those players to rip up their play style. I think the direction of traffic in rugby globally is that teams with flamboyant, open running attacks are beginning to have more success than teams that play solid fundamental, territorial rugby. For example, Lions, Connacht, NZ teams. This is possibly an intentional consequence of rule changes over the years that appear geared to making the "product" more attractive / entertaining.

I'd imagine selecting non-Lions and playing a completely non-Lion gameplan would bring more short term success than what SA are currently doing. However, I think it's debatable if that is in the best medium to long term interests of the Boks. Plus, if you are going to experiment, the time to do that is with a new coach. Fans will be even less tolerant of starting to experiment (and the resulting inconsistency) if a coach already has a dozen games under his belt.
 
Two fairly even teams. SA in transition, Australia are not, so I give them the nod on this. As I keep saying, I really don't think this Australia team is quite as bad as people think (admittedly, it is quite limited and the club form of the players has been poor).

I know I'm Australian and a Wallabies fan but I feel the same way, we have been given a baptism of fire in the last 6 games. lost 3 to NZ and 3 to a vastly improved England.

Take any other team in the world and give them this draw - would they end up with the same result? likely YES
 

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