[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: Ireland vs. Scotland (19/03/2016)

[Saint4805]

Thank you for that support - it is appreciated!

Incidentally, for those interested, there is quite a potent rugby scene in the Island, albeit at junior level, with at least four clubs of which two clubs compete in UK leagues!!

I've read quite a few of your posts and can see that you do indeed know your rugby.

It's your banter or rather attempted banter that needs some work.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Most of you will find this funny but it's perfectly true... Heaslip was the best Number 8 in the last two rounds of the championship!

Very pleased with how Ireland finished and third in the championship isn't terrible considering our injuries and lack of defensive coach. I think the vitriol of Ireland's gamesmanship is over the top, they successfully riled Scotland's best player to the point he disappeared in the second half, that is the sort of stuff that is praised in a lot of rugby folklore. Yapping at the ref and cheating at the breakdown are part and parcel of the game nowadays too, sometimes it works and when it does you usually win.

We're strong going forward too, Sexton finally looked fit, Earls is becoming every bit the player he showed he could be early in his career, Henshaw must be up there with the best centres in world rugby these days and will only get better and we have POM, Henderson, Moore, Moloney, O'Connor, Conan, O'Donoghue, James Ryan, Luke McGrath, Fitzgerald, Ringrose, McCloskey, D Kearney, Olding, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson, Scholes and JJ Hanrahan, off the top of my head, all as options to come in in the next 24 months under the new coaching regime(s).

This year might be light on wins because of the quality of opponents and the crossroads we're at but the groundwork put in this championship lays a great platform to kick on and improve.

 

[Peat]

Have you considered a career in PR?

 

[munstermuffin]

Up early for work on Sunday ...,,,,

Alpha is right but few issues
1. We still don't know where we are at. Yes it was good wins but against a poorish Scotland who probably were effected from 6 day turnaround.
2. Defensively we are gone way back
3. Our RWC status still depends on SA tour

 

[The Jones Boy]

As a neutral I thought Scotland were whistled out of the game in the first half. Particularly the first 25 minutes. Half a dozen penalties and a yellow card on the 24 minute ???!!!
They could do nothing right in the eyes of the official Pascal Gauzere.
They did show a dogged determination to stay in the game but I would have that first half performance reviewed if I were in charge of the referees.
I know the best/most experienced referees have been reduced to one game each in the 6 Nations to bring other referees through and give them more opportunity, and Pascal failed in my opinion.

Then later in the second half there were two nailed on penalties for Ireland at the breakdown that he awarded to Scotland... and it had a feel that he was trying to 'even the game up', by way of his whistle, reminiscent of Andre Watson.

Both teams were trying to play attacking rugby but the whistle often got in the way of the game.

Ireland have the stronger loose forwards and half back, and the stronger centers. They played this game making less mistakes but they were handed the first 25 minutes on a plate.

 

[corny]

Most of you will find this funny but it's perfectly true... Heaslip was the best Number 8 in the last two rounds of the championship!

Very pleased with how Ireland finished and third in the championship isn't terrible considering our injuries and lack of defensive coach. I think the vitriol of Ireland's gamesmanship is over the top, they successfully riled Scotland's best player to the point he disappeared in the second half, that is the sort of stuff that is praised in a lot of rugby folklore. Yapping at the ref and cheating at the breakdown are part and parcel of the game nowadays too, sometimes it works and when it does you usually win.

We're strong going forward too, Sexton finally looked fit, Earls is becoming every bit the player he showed he could be early in his career, Henshaw must be up there with the best centres in world rugby these days and will only get better and we have POM, Henderson, Moore, Moloney, O'Connor, Conan, O'Donoghue, James Ryan, Luke McGrath, Fitzgerald, Ringrose, McCloskey, D Kearney, Olding, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson, Scholes and JJ Hanrahan, off the top of my head, all as options to come in in the next 24 months under the new coaching regime(s).

This year might be light on wins because of the quality of opponents and the crossroads we're at but the groundwork put in this championship lays a great platform to kick on and improve.

Thought Ireland resorted to type yesterday. They kicked far more Garryowens, didn't offload and the emphasis was placed solely on securing quick ruck ball. The patterns we were playing in the games previous, that yielded lots of line breaks, were abandoned. For the record i'm not upset by this. We really needed to win yesterday. With respect to Scotland playing that way ensured we'd beat them.

After the WC the criticism of Ireland was that we have to expand our game. Schmidt tried to do that, we lost a couple of games and the people who were calling criticising suddenly wanted his head. I don't know if they were expecting a slam while this change in gameplan took place but there you go.

All in all decent 6N's. We showed promise, at times, with ball in hand but never capitalised on the linebreaks. A failed experiment then?....Wouldn't go that far but we're still nowhere near finding a balance. We should probably go back to playing the pressure game using our halves to be brutally honest. It maximises our chances of winning.

I have every confidence Farrell will sort out our defensive problems when he takes the job.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Thought Ireland resorted to type yesterday. They kicked far more Garryowens, didn't offload and the emphasis was placed solely on securing quick ruck ball. The patterns we were playing in the games previous, that yielded lots of line breaks, were abandoned. For the record i'm not upset by this. We really needed to win yesterday. With respect to Scotland playing that way ensured we'd beat them.

After the WC the criticism of Ireland was that we have to expand our game. Schmidt tried to do that, we lost a couple of games and the people who were calling criticising suddenly wanted his head. I don't know if they were expecting a slam while this change in gameplan took place but there you go.

All in all decent 6N's. We showed promise, at times, with ball in hand but never capitalised on the linebreaks. A failed experiment then?....Wouldn't go that far but we're still nowhere near finding a balance. We should probably go back to playing the pressure game using our halves to be brutally honest. It maximises our chances of winning.

I have every confidence Farrell will sort out our defensive problems when he takes the job.

Yeah, I kind of expected it considering Scotland couldn't lay a finger on us when we've played like that before. There was some variation to it, a lot of shorter and shallower kicks that worked to different degrees. I think going forward we need to mix it up a little, we didn't kick enough against France or well enough against England or Wales while not having the mobility in the pack to stretch these teams. I'm quite excited though going forward, I think we're set up well to pounce and get a test win in South Africa for the first time, the confidence from the last two games of the championship and the addition of a few new faces will do this side well, similar enough to the last time we played South Africa.

 

[Amiga500]

As a neutral I thought Scotland were whistled out of the game in the first half. Particularly the first 25 minutes. Half a dozen penalties and a yellow card on the 24 minute ???!!!
They could do nothing right in the eyes of the official Pascal Gauzere.
They did show a dogged determination to stay in the game but I would have that first half performance reviewed if I were in charge of the referees.
I know the best/most experienced referees have been reduced to one game each in the 6 Nations to bring other referees through and give them more opportunity, and Pascal failed in my opinion.

Then later in the second half there were two nailed on penalties for Ireland at the breakdown that he awarded to Scotland... and it had a feel that he was trying to 'even the game up', by way of his whistle, reminiscent of Andre Watson.

Both teams were trying to play attacking rugby but the whistle often got in the way of the game.

Hmmm, I'd likely need to re-watch in detail, but I thought he was just being very strict on players off their feet slowing the ball. Even if you were only partially off your feet/supporting your weight, he gave no-leeway. While it probably looked weird compared to most matches, it probably was the correct application of the laws!


It did make for quicker ruck ball and should have led to more expansive play if our backs were well drilled (and properly selected) and Scotland didn't persist with Weir at 10 till too late. Alas neither was the case so it just ended up all a bit lateral and toothless for long periods.






Also if I were a Scot, I'd be having a much closer look at Laidlaw and questioning whether he is really your first choice 9... He also should be aware that rolling your eyes when the referee is explaining what he sees your guys doing wrong isn't going to fix the problem at the next breakdown. Too much small angry man/smartarse/stupid chunt in there for him to be a (good) captain IMO.

 

[Saint4805]

I agree there's no excuse for rolling his eyes but to be fair I don't think the ref was doing a good job communicating to the captains what the issues were. Even at the end he pulled Horne up and had a word with him for goodness knows what. I think Laidlaw looked confused more than anything. Nigel Owens is a far more effective communicator and leaves the players in no doubt in his application of the laws.

 

[Amiga500]

The language barrier wasn't helping.

At that point its up to the captain to engage in real conversation rather than take the you vs. us route.

If your on the wrong side of the ref's interpretation, find out what his interpretation is and quick! Not eyerolls, shrugged shoulders and bad attitude.

[which unfortunately is becoming far too common in the game along with other stunts from soccer - Sexton's antics were embarassing]

 

[Tony Manx]

Hmmm, I'd likely need to re-watch in detail, but I thought he was just being very strict on players off their feet slowing the ball. Even if you were only partially off your feet/supporting your weight, he gave no-leeway. While it probably looked weird compared to most matches, it probably was the correct application of the laws!


It did make for quicker ruck ball and should have led to more expansive play if our backs were well drilled (and properly selected) and Scotland didn't persist with Weir at 10 till too late. Alas neither was the case so it just ended up all a bit lateral and toothless for long periods.






Also if I were a Scot, I'd be having a much closer look at Laidlaw and questioning whether he is really your first choice 9... He also should be aware that rolling your eyes when the referee is explaining what he sees your guys doing wrong isn't going to fix the problem at the next breakdown. Too much small angry man/smartarse/stupid chunt in there for him to be a (good) captain IMO.

I rest my case.......

 

[corny]

Had nothing to do with communication in all fairness. All the penalties were for slowing the ball down. Everyone in the ground knew what they were for. Laidlaw knew it too. He just disagreed with the ref and thought he knew better.

FWIW I think he's a average captain and even worse scrum half. His limitation in not being able to generate tempo is holding Scotland back no end.

 

[Saint4805]

The communication was poor in the second half on more than one occasion. The reason for the flurry of penalties in the first half was clear but the ref was struggling to speak with clarity and authority in the second half. It's not an excuse. Ireland deserved to win. I just hope we give a better account of ourselves at Murrayfield next year.

 

[itsonlyrugby]

I think Ireland would have won even with a different ref. That doesn't take away the frustration caused by blatant inconsistencies. Ireland repeatedly infringed at the breakdown with no censure from the ref. In the first half if I closed my eyes it sounded like Barnes was refereeing, except instead of Barnes scattergun approach it was all Scotland. In the second half he seemed to be trying to redress the balance,even giving Scotland penalties they didn't deserve. By then it was too late,the damage had been done.
We have all seen and gotten used to the difference in years gone by of Northern v Southern refereeing. Now it seems every ref has his own take on how the rules should be applied. Worse even is that some seem to decide which rules to apply when.
Needs looking at,too many contests being affected.

 

[corny]

I think Ireland would have won even with a different ref. That doesn't take away the frustration caused by blatant inconsistencies. Ireland repeatedly infringed at the breakdown with no censure from the ref. In the first half if I closed my eyes it sounded like Barnes was refereeing, except instead of Barnes scattergun approach it was all Scotland. In the second half he seemed to be trying to redress the balance,even giving Scotland penalties they didn't deserve. By then it was too late,the damage had been done.
We have all seen and gotten used to the difference in years gone by of Northern v Southern refereeing. Now it seems every ref has his own take on how the rules should be applied. Worse even is that some seem to decide which rules to apply when.
Needs looking at,too many contests being affected.

The reason for that was Ireland completely dominated possession. The redress in the second half occurred because Scotland finally got their hands on some ball and went through phases. It was 79% possession to Ireland in the first half and 71% to Scotland in the second. The ref was consistent in his interpretation (strict on the defending team). The key variable was possession.

 

[itsonlyrugby]

The reason for that was Ireland completely dominated possession. The redress in the second half occurred because Scotland finally got their hands on some ball and went through phases. It was 79% possession to Ireland in the first half and 71% to Scotland in the second. The ref was consistent in his interpretation (strict on the defending team). The key variable was possession.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. In the second half Scotland rarely enjoyed quick ball due to constant infringing by Irish players. The ref let it go. It was blatant. He didn't have a great game,too inconsistent. He pinged Scottish players for being anywhere near Irish ball in the first half.