[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: England vs. Wales (12/03/2016)

[gaston le gaff]

Firstly it was said in the heat of the moment and the guy did apologise after, although he should never have said it. Being old school there was a lot more said in my days i find a comment like "gypsy boy" nearly friendly. The trouble today is micros on the ref and all is heard, i know its not good for the game but lets not get too squeaky clean this is contact sport and tempers to get a little hot now and again. The next thing will be players apologising for receiving a punch instead of a good old fashioned retaliation. Find the old Toulon v Bordeaux Begles match i think in the 90's and gypsy boy was a complement they were fighting in the tunnel as they came onto the pitch. It seems to me that we are getting closer to footie ball all the time, diving, feinting injuries etc. we should not be going down this road. A little like rugby tours "what happens on tour stays on tour" same applies to the pitch, of course within reason!!!!!!!

 

[Peat]

It seems to me that we are getting closer to footie ball all the time, diving, feinting injuries etc. we should not be going down this road. A little like rugby tours "what happens on tour stays on tour" same applies to the pitch!!!!!!!

Everyone can see the pitch though. Millions of people heard what Marler had to say. Even if you wanted to do things that way, you couldn't.

 

[The5thOfficial]

Firstly it was said in the heat of the moment and the guy did apologise after, although he should never have said it. Being old school there was a lot more said in my days i find a comment like "gypsy boy" nearly friendly. The trouble today is micros on the ref and all is heard, i know its not good for the game but lets not get too squeaky clean this is contact sport and tempers to get a little hot now and again. The next thing will be players apologising for receiving a punch instead of a good old fashioned retaliation. Find the old Toulon v Bordeaux Begles match i think in the 90's and gypsy boy was a complement they were fighting in the tunnel as they came onto the pitch. It seems to me that we are getting closer to footie ball all the time, diving, feinting injuries etc. we should not be going down this road. A little like rugby tours "what happens on tour stays on tour" same applies to the pitch, of course within reason!!!!!!!

I get every one of your sentiments. But times change. Words and phrases and 'things' in general were said in the 70s and 80s that just would not be acceptable now. I could list examples but I'm sure the older guys (and girls) here will know what I mean. Times change and we have to adapt and change with them. Its fact. Or face the consequences.

 

[gaston le gaff]

I understand but its all very sad, PC and other are causing far too many problems in todays world i know thats how it is but does not mean i have to enjoy it.

 

[The5thOfficial]

I understand but its all very sad, PC and other are causing far too many problems in todays world i know thats how it is but does not mean i have to enjoy it.

+ 1 yep!!!

 

[ncurd]

When bandy about the words political correctness what I usually hear/read is why can't I be an offensive ****?

It's catch all term but that's essentiallyrics what it means. It really annoys me that people think they can wash away any argument by using it.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I understand but its all very sad, PC and other are causing far too many problems in todays world i know thats how it is but does not mean i have to enjoy it.

This has literally nothing to do with political correctness. We all know the language he used was wrong, it attacks a minority that are largely shunned by society. That's why the term "white boy" isn't offensive, because white people have so many more benefits than other ethnicities. When he brought the guys race into the equation he was out of order and should rightly be banned much like Francis

That's all well and good apart from the fact Ashton got 10 weeks for less because his hands were in the face area. It's a matter of consistency and a precedent has already been set. There is no way Ashton could get penalised as he did but Francis get nothing.

Completely agree with this.

 

[The5thOfficial]

When bandy about the words political correctness what I usually hear/read is why can't I be an offensive ****?

It's catch all term but that's essentiallyrics what it means. It really annoys me that people think they can wash away any argument by using it.

Ha ha I hear that too! Although I dont think this was the case with gaston above.

 

[Tony Manx]

I understand but its all very sad, PC and other are causing far too many problems in todays world i know thats how it is but does not mean i have to enjoy it.

I'm wit you Bro.......as they say these days!!

 

[ncurd]

Okay here's a better and less incendiary question what does the 'PC Brigade' exactly do that causes problems that was so much better in the 70's? Because we didn't have rights and acceptance of people regardless of religion, race, colour, national or ethnic origin, sexual orientation or otherwise (in fact it was damn right hideous to some groups). Is not being able to say taunt an opposing player based on his ethnic origin a very small price to pay for that?

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Okay here's a better and less incendiary question what does the 'PC Brigade' exactly do that causes problems that was so much better in the 70's? Because we didn't have rights and acceptance of people regardless of religion, race, colour, national or ethnic origin, sexual orientation or otherwise (in fact it was damn right hideous to some groups). Is not being able to say taunt an opposing player based on his ethnic origin a very small price to pay for that?

Play nasty with youngsters?

 

[Saint4805]

Did he apologise because he himself recognised what he did was wrong and wanted to show remorse or did he do it because he was informed that it was picked up by one of the microphones? There is a big difference.

 

[ncurd]

Probably the latter but it's impossible to know. Clearly the team, management even himself must of realised it was serious though. To apologise during the match at half-time means he must of known it was wrong.

Whether he actually meant it only he knows.

 

[smartcooky]

@smartcooky

Can you clarify if Cole's bin should of been reversed?

Full line of events.

1) Cole brings down the maul. Penalty given
2) Cole is 'touched' in the face by Francis
3) Cole is binned for repeat offending by the team.
4) On TMO advice the penalty is reversed due to the action of Francis.

Due to penalty being reversed should the bin of stayed? I'm 100% sure I've seen it happen before but it may have been different circumstances. As a side question had Francis been binned like he should of done (I think only nut jobs are arguing it was a penalty only) would that made a difference as well.

Just wanted clarity as we didn't seam too clear at the time.

Cole's binning stands. He was binned because of persistent infringing. That offence does not go away just because the PK was reversed for another, later offence.

The only time a binning can be reversed is if the referee has misidentified a player and sent the wrong player to the bin.

Always keep in mind that a yellow card is not a penalty in and of itself, its a management tool available to the referee to deal with persistent, cynical and dangerous offending. The referee can actually give a yellow card without a penalty (think Bryan Habana, RWC semi final v New Zealand - he was yellow carded for an intentional knock on in the lead up to a NZ try.


ETA: Sorry, missed your second question. I haven't seen the piece of action you are talking about so I can comment. If anyone posts a video, I'll have a look

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Holy Zombie Jaheebus. If you made that then I might love you.

I did indeed, my finest work

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I did indeed, my finest work

The pillow is in my mouth, you brilliant *******

 

[Maverick1987]

1) No one (sensible) is papering over the cracks, we all know that it was an awful performance in the first 60 or so. Easily the worst half of rugby we've played in a decade.

2) Biggar was one of our few stand out players so not sure where you're getting that he's been "shown up for what he is" . Yeah we looked better in attack in the last few mins with Priestland, but Biggar had zero help from his outside backs previous to that, and Webb's service improved us massively too. Biggar seriously looked like the one of the only players giving a crap out there at times.

Giving a crap and actually standing up to being world class and the form 10 in the world as some people have touted him are very different things . Dan Biggars shortcomings have been visciously bought forward in this game . Make no mistake he isn't Beauden Barritt in attack neither is he Owen Farrell in defence . His usual thing to do when under pressure is to up and under to himself which were comfortably defused by Brown on Saturday . Which unfortunately for Biggar led him to be outplayed by Priestland . I don't buy the scrum half change either, Biggar had his best games with Gareth Davies at scrum half in the RWC .

Like I said I always felt he was a very good player riding a wave and I didn't before and still to this day don't believe he will ever be anything more than an good player and won't be near a starting lions team

The Welsh talk about England over hyping players (see the Itoje thread) this is exactly what Wales did to Biggar

 

[Slamdunk]

Sickening from a Welsh point of view is that tournament stats thus far highlight George North as THE stand-out attacking player of the 6 nations. This, with Italy to go on Saturday suggests he will finish in that position, comfortably ahead of the excellent Joseph. How can Gatland not look at the stats, and at the 3 tries North has scored and realise his way is not working. Norths running, his try scoring in this competition and his general play have all fallen outside Warrenball. His first try a great solo effort coming infield against Scotland. His lucky second as a result of a hack forward by JD2 and his third a result of Wales throwing Warrenball in the bin.
Wales are criticised for not being able to play heads-up rugby yet have the best attacking player in the tournament actually producing the goods in spite of, not because of the tactics.

Seriously, we are ten minutes from team announcement and Gatland needs to think outside the box, bring players in, and have a look at what they can do before we get annihilated in New Zealand and Welsh rugby starts sliding back to the bad old days. Wake up you silly Kiwi cnut.

 

[Slamdunk]

Giving a crap and actually standing up to being world class and the form 10 in the world as some people have touted him are very different things . Dan Biggars shortcomings have been visciously bought forward in this game . Make no mistake he isn't Beauden Barritt in attack neither is he Owen Farrell in defence . His usual thing to do when under pressure is to up and under to himself which were comfortably defused by Brown on Saturday . Which unfortunately for Biggar led him to be outplayed by Priestland . I don't buy the scrum half change either, Biggar had his best games with Gareth Davies at scrum half in the RWC .

Like I said I always felt he was a very good player riding a wave and I didn't before and still to this day don't believe he will ever be anything more than an good player and won't be near a starting lions team

The Welsh talk about England over hyping players (see the Itoje thread) this is exactly what Wales did to Biggar

I agree apart from one thing. Biggar was hyped by everyone, including the English media. In RWC2015 he just happened to play the perfect game for his style and it all came off. His restarts, his punts, his kick-chases....all and everything allowed either himself or someone else to be there to challenge the recipient either in the air or on the ground when they caught it. It kept England under pressure and the likes of Brown was catching, landing and looking up to find himself swarmed alloever.
Biggars kicking game was awful last weekend and his restarts not only enabled England to clear, they gave enough time for an attacking platform. Brown and Watson are devastating runners, if allowed, and Biggars kicks gave them the freedom of Twickenham.
So, without the kicking game going well Biggar has scant else to fall back on. He is not flat enough to continually get Roberts over the gain-line and he cannot get the other backs running because his first instinct is always to kick. England knew this.
If anything, the Welsh demise on saturday was accelerated by Biggar because his trump card, the kick, was not present.

A Lions team will absolutely need a fly-half capable of varying play. Biggar does not.

Like much of what Wales do though, is this by design or default? Biggar under orders, cannot even try plan B because he is not allowed?

Sadly, unless Biggar is given an opportunity to play heads-up rugby i dont think we will know if he is capable.

I think youre mostly right but the jury is out for me still. He might have it there, but if so, he is hiding it well.

 

[Maverick1987]

I agree apart from one thing. Biggar was hyped by everyone, including the English media. In RWC2015 he just happened to play the perfect game for his style and it all came off. His restarts, his punts, his kick-chases....all and everything allowed either himself or someone else to be there to challenge the recipient either in the air or on the ground when they caught it. It kept England under pressure and the likes of Brown was catching, landing and looking up to find himself swarmed alloever.
Biggars kicking game was awful last weekend and his restarts not only enabled England to clear, they gave enough time for an attacking platform. Brown and Watson are devastating runners, if allowed, and Biggars kicks gave them the freedom of Twickenham.
So, without the kicking game going well Biggar has scant else to fall back on. He is not flat enough to continually get Roberts over the gain-line and he cannot get the other backs running because his first instinct is always to kick. England knew this.
If anything, the Welsh demise on saturday was accelerated by Biggar because his trump card, the kick, was not present.

A Lions team will absolutely need a fly-half capable of varying play. Biggar does not.

Like much of what Wales do though, is this by design or default? Biggar under orders, cannot even try plan B because he is not allowed?

Sadly, unless Biggar is given an opportunity to play heads-up rugby i dont think we will know if he is capable.

I think youre mostly right but the jury is out for me still. He might have it there, but if so, he is hiding it well.

Yeh nothing id disagree with here other than on your previous post you said North was the stand out attacking player . Id say that's Watson but it's fairly even . Both have had excellent 6Ns