[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: England vs. Wales (12/03/2016)

[Thingimubob]

Stats definitely are in his favour, from watching him I wouldn't have guessed it.

I said he couldn't have done much better, didn't at all say it should count against him. What I would say is that he doesn't look at his best. We've seen him at his destructive best against the Wallaby's and he has not got near those heights. He has done well, as I've said, but to call his tournament excellent, especially by his standards, I would have to say is incorrect, in the same way I wouldn't say JJ ahs had an excellent tournament despite being top try scorer. The most defenders beaten stat did surprise me, one more than Billy V, which is very impressive I do have to concede.

I would say the dummy kick incident was actually pretty poor, it was very poor poaching but he got lucky that the French couldn't get a hold of it after he blew the fast chance. That certainly didn't signal near to his best for me.

I get what you mean, but I myself would attribute it to our attacking playing looking bad in general, casting a bit of a shadow on anything decent we actually do.

North has looked dangerous most times he has got the ball, especially against England and Scotland, which is where the stats come from I'd say.

I'll admit he's not quite at his Lions 2013 best still, but he's getting there. However, for me his best is world beating and a step above even his current excellent performances.

This is his best 6N in a long time anyway, last couple (even 2013) were relatively quiet by his standards.

Haha well there's a reason he's a rugby player and not trying to ply his trade in the premier league

 

[valley commando]

Firstly it was said in the heat of the moment and the guy did apologise after, although he should never have said it. Being old school there was a lot more said in my days i find a comment like "gypsy boy" nearly friendly. The trouble today is micros on the ref and all is heard, i know its not good for the game but lets not get too squeaky clean this is contact sport and tempers to get a little hot now and again. The next thing will be players apologising for receiving a punch instead of a good old fashioned retaliation. Find the old Toulon v Bordeaux Begles match i think in the 90's and gypsy boy was a complement they were fighting in the tunnel as they came onto the pitch. It seems to me that we are getting closer to footie ball all the time, diving, feinting injuries etc. we should not be going down this road. A little like rugby tours "what happens on tour stays on tour" same applies to the pitch, of course within reason!!!!!!!

You are absolutely right, there are too many over sensitive members of the pc brigade on this forum, the same type of individuals are over the top on health and safety. One question is all that needs answering - is Samson Lee upset by the comment Marler made, I suspect not, he is probably having a laugh about all the pc idiots that are up in arms over a few misplaced words uttered in the heat of battle, it's time we all grew up and stopped making something out of nothing.
You are also right about the game we love being marred with soccer type girlie behaviour, we have seen Hoggs dive in the WC for me that was the lowpoint of the WC, we have seen petulance from Brown in the past and it has become commonplace to see players trying to influence the ref at scrum time (usually the scrum half) It's time to stamp out these incidences, if a player dives or pretends to have been mortally wounded by a a little push or slap from an opponent then a red card and a 6 week ban for the big girl involved.

 

[j'nuh]

I was thinking today, has any Welsh player developed their attacking play under the Gatland regime? To me, there are plenty of players who have gotten a lot worse. Hook was viewed as one of the most gifted players in world rugby at the beginning of the Gatland era, yet slowly drifted away. Halfpenny first made an impact as an exciting running winger, but is now viewed mostly as a dependable, kicking fullback. Even the likes of North, Jon Davies and Liam Williams had far stronger running games when they first burst onto the scene, and whilst Liam and Davies are both still exciting players, it feels like both use the boot far more than they used to. Even Faletau has become less exciting, first making his name with the Dragons as an 8 who made lung busting 40m breaks. Cuthbert started well, but has gotten progressively worse.

It feels like we need a constant stream of new exciting players who play instinctive rugby before their creativity is sucked from them.

Maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic atm after the dreadful attacking displays of late. But the more I think about it, the more it grates, and the more worried I get. Howley is obviously a key figure here as well, I do think he has a lot to answer for.

There is the point that players that run the ball can be prone to being turned over. May was criticised for this early on (back when he played fullback, long before he played for England). He would run the ball at every opportunity, and it was exciting to watch, and sometimes great things came from it, but often he would get isolated and turned over. He's definitely a better player for having that "run at any opportunity" mindset coached out of him. That being said, I don't think that's the entire picture. As you say, I think Howley has a lot to answer for.

I don't think it's too late for Wales to change though. For all of England's failings, the one thing Jones has brought to England that has impressed me is how England play at a much higher tempo. This is nearly exactly the same backline that played under Lancaster, but the speed of attack is so much more impressive. It isn't something that has taken years to implement; Jones has achieved it in months. I think it proves that the NH can play a quick tempo game, there just has to be the willingness to attempt it.

 

[Thingimubob]

You are absolutely right, there are too many over sensitive members of the pc brigade on this forum, the same type of individuals are over the top on health and safety. One question is all that needs answering - is Samson Lee upset by the comment Marler made, I suspect not, he is probably having a laugh about all the pc idiots that are up in arms over a few misplaced words uttered in the heat of battle, it's time we all grew up and stopped making something out of nothing.
You are also right about the game we love being marred with soccer type girlie behaviour, we have seen Hoggs dive in the WC for me that was the lowpoint of the WC, we have seen petulance from Brown in the past and it has become commonplace to see players trying to influence the ref at scrum time (usually the scrum half) It's time to stamp out these incidences, if a player dives or pretends to have been mortally wounded by a a little push or slap from an opponent then a red card and a 6 week ban for the big girl involved.

What on earth has diving got to do with what Marler did?

Also why am I not surprised it's you to spout the "PC brigade" rubbish.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Marler is still a kid. He will learn from this unfortunate uttering. He has long years ahead of him in the white jersey.
What Marler said would have about as much effect on his opponent as saying, "You're ugly and your mum dresses you funny."
Top props make their mark with their play, not what they say.
Marler is powerful and has great promise but he's still a kid with a lot to learn.

 

[The5thOfficial]

What on earth has diving got to do with what Marler did?

Also why am I not surprised it's you to spout the "PC brigade" rubbish.

Agreed! Garbage written long-hand. Another looking for a loophole through which to abuse others. That loophole being the PC slant.

 

[Slamdunk]

There is the point that players that run the ball can be prone to being turned over. May was criticised for this early on (back when he played fullback, long before he played for England). He would run the ball at every opportunity, and it was exciting to watch, and sometimes great things came from it, but often he would get isolated and turned over. He's definitely a better player for having that "run at any opportunity" mindset coached out of him. That being said, I don't think that's the entire picture. As you say, I think Howley has a lot to answer for.

I don't think it's too late for Wales to change though. For all of England's failings, the one thing Jones has brought to England that has impressed me is how England play at a much higher tempo. This is nearly exactly the same backline that played under Lancaster, but the speed of attack is so much more impressive. It isn't something that has taken years to implement; Jones has achieved it in months. I think it proves that the NH can play a quick tempo game, there just has to be the willingness to attempt it.

Im not sure this is what done for Wales. Biggars kicks were too long on the restarts and he gave the poor chasers too much to do. I lost count of the times Watson and Brown caught the ball and had time to set, look up and make decisions. Yes, cracking attacking players they might be, but we gave them the freedom of Twickenham. Notably this stopped in the middle of the second half when Wales started pressing properly and with purpose - and stopped kicking the ball to them.

Im no rocket scientist but i do think that Brown and Watson are better if you give them the ball and shout "have a run son"

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-labels-joe-marler-11045218

Fair play to Gatland, the only sense spoken publicly thus far. Its not an issue to Samson Lee so maybe people should stop with the faux outrage on his behalf. I used to say to players "tell your mum shes no good i want my money back". Am i really stating that the mother is a prostitute or just trying to wind the opposition up?

banter, well done Gatland.

 

[Slamdunk]

George North has been terrific in this 6N and is getting back to his best after playing for Saints.

It's just a pity he didn't choose to play for England, his country of birth.

Really? You want to go that route? The richest and largest rugby union in the world England? Youre really going to question play that card.

I can raise you your own Captain, think of it. Eddie Jones comes in and the first thing he does is give the captaincy to a KIWI!!!!!! I could mention a few more but i will rest my case on this simple example.

North grew up in and speaks Welsh, he chose Wales as his home country. Hartley didnt have a choice between England and the All Blacks mate. He took what was on offer.

 

[johnmac99]

Really? You want to go that route? The richest and largest rugby union in the world England? Youre really going to question play that card.

I can raise you your own Captain, think of it. Eddie Jones comes in and the first thing he does is give the captaincy to a KIWI!!!!!! I could mention a few more but i will rest my case on this simple example.

North grew up in and speaks Welsh, he chose Wales as his home country. Hartley didnt have a choice between England and the All Blacks mate. He took what was on offer.

It was just a bit of BANTER, but you couldn't let it go, could you?

George North is a superb rugby player who plays for Wales. I'm green with envy as I think he is world class and know he learned his trade in the same country he learned his Welsh.

I know his dad is from Yorkshire and his mother from Wales and that he was born in Kings Lynn and moved to Anglesey when he was two, blah blah blah.

It was a joke, OK? .......ffs

 

[Thingimubob]

Really? You want to go that route? The richest and largest rugby union in the world England? Youre really going to question play that card.

I can raise you your own Captain, think of it. Eddie Jones comes in and the first thing he does is give the captaincy to a KIWI!!!!!! I could mention a few more but i will rest my case on this simple example.

North grew up in and speaks Welsh, he chose Wales as his home country. Hartley didnt have a choice between England and the All Blacks mate. He took what was on offer.

Calm down mate, almost certain he was taking the mick you've gone and given him a bite.

Really disappointed with Gatland's comments. Singling people out by their race, to provoke a reaction, heard by millions over people, should not be counted as "banter". Part of the responsibilities of being a top level international rugby player is you have to be a role model. Behaviour like that sets an incredibly poor on example, especially for kids who may grow up thinking its OK to do this.

My question is, would Gatland have said "it's just banter" if a Welsh player had singled out itoje? I don't think so, so not sure why this case is any different.

 

[ncurd]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-labels-joe-marler-11045218

Fair play to Gatland, the only sense spoken publicly thus far. Its not an issue to Samson Lee so maybe people should stop with the faux outrage on his behalf. I used to say to players "tell your mum shes no good i want my money back". Am i really stating that the mother is a prostitute or just trying to wind the opposition up?

banter, well done Gatland.

I respect Gatland for having that attitude in regards to Wales and the team that's entirely the attutude that should be held by them. It's good and healthy we don't want a witch hunt mentality there have been people saying the book should be thrown at Marler and that's the kind of talk that stops a reaosnable response not being able to be used.

However I do think Marler need to cop some kind of warning/fine/ban(short, which according to smartcooky will just helf cocurrently for is likely longer one for striking) from the World Rugby. They state their rules don't allow it. Like I've stated recently it's not about grown adults on the rugby field who take the abuse it's telling kids it's perfectly fine to do stuff like that. Bigger picture stuff an all the smaller picture yeah it's already been dealt with.

I'm not outraged by his comments and his biggest mistake was getting caught by the mic but ultimately hes been caught and needs to get visibly punished.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Really? You want to go that route? The richest and largest rugby union in the world England? Youre really going to question play that card.

I can raise you your own Captain, think of it. Eddie Jones comes in and the first thing he does is give the captaincy to a KIWI!!!!!! I could mention a few more but i will rest my case on this simple example.

North grew up in and speaks Welsh, he chose Wales as his home country. Hartley didnt have a choice between England and the All Blacks mate. He took what was on offer.

Don't be pathetic. You've just indicated that you don't mind banter (re. Marler) yet you've just shown otherwise.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Really? You want to go that route? The richest and largest rugby union in the world England? Youre really going to question play that card.

I can raise you your own Captain, think of it. Eddie Jones comes in and the first thing he does is give the captaincy to a KIWI!!!!!! I could mention a few more but i will rest my case on this simple example.

North grew up in and speaks Welsh, he chose Wales as his home country. Hartley didnt have a choice between England and the All Blacks mate. He took what was on offer.

I'll give johnmac99 the benefit of the doubt, I don't think he was trying to tweak tails. But I agree with the sentiment. North, used properly, is an absolutely wonderful player that I'd loved to have seen in white. Not to be, but I can dream for a minute of the carnage a back 3 of North Watson and May could have caused.

 

[johnmac99]

If Marler wanted to wind up Lee, why didn't he just whisper something in his ear in the scrum, as they were binding on each other all game?

Gives me the impression that Marler's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and will probably be taught a lesson by the authorities.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If Marler wanted to wind up Lee, why didn't he just whisper something in his ear in the scrum, as they were binding on each other all game?

Gives me the impression that Marler's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and will probably be taught a lesson by the authorities.

I don't think we needed the gypsy incident to come to that conclusion. Him and Haskell come across as "lads", quite loud and with a mouth that works faster than their brain.

 

[ThebigARena]

Forget North, Nowell has been burned off by club centres this season. That lack of pace will cost us in a big tight game one day. Quite happy if he was to be Brown's replacement, but at this level never a winger for me. I'm a May fan and before injury his all round game was improving at a similar rate to Kruis.

Wales have had a very stable team both on and off the pitch for a long time and it strikes me that the players have just been listening to the same voices for too long. What new can Gatland say to AWJ, Warbs etc that they haven't heard a hundred times before? They've got some very good players, but I think they just need a bit of reinvigorating. Everyone has a shelf life.

As for Lee, a Telegraph article to which he contributed last year, and was presumably happy with, described him as "of gypsy stock". If he was comfortable with that, then "Gypsy Boy" is little more than a clumsy piece of WUMing. Shouldn't have said it, but not a hanging offence either.

Doesn't matter whether Lee is happy with being termed a gypsy or not. The difference is It was meant with malice from marler,
Which in turn is slanderous.

 

[TobesHodges]

Samson Lee does look like a Gypsy doe..

 

[ThebigARena]

Samson Lee does look like a Gypsy doe..

So and your point is..

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I'd beg to differ Samson Lee looks nothing like Tyson fury and he's the gypsy King

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Doesn't matter whether Lee is happy with being termed a gypsy or not. The difference is It was meant with malice from marler,
Which in turn is slanderous.

I suspect that the legal eagles among our number might beg to differ.

 

[tdh24]

Forget North, Nowell has been burned off by club centres this season. That lack of pace will cost us in a big tight game one day. Quite happy if he was to be Brown's replacement, but at this level never a winger for me. I'm a May fan and before injury his all round game was improving at a similar rate to Kruis.

Wales have had a very stable team both on and off the pitch for a long time and it strikes me that the players have just been listening to the same voices for too long. What new can Gatland say to AWJ, Warbs etc that they haven't heard a hundred times before? They've got some very good players, but I think they just need a bit of reinvigorating. Everyone has a shelf life.

As for Lee, a Telegraph article to which he contributed last year, and was presumably happy with, described him as "of gypsy stock". If he was comfortable with that, then "Gypsy Boy" is little more than a clumsy piece of WUMing. Shouldn't have said it, but not a hanging offence either.

Earlier this season Nowell got comfortably caught having intercepted. He is a good enough player that he managed to link up with others but his lack of gas is clearly a problem. Rush defences rely on a fast winger to cover in the eventuality that teams manage to get round the back. Nowell perhaps was also a bit too far in, making the problem worse.