[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 3: England vs. Ireland (27/02/2016)

[Maverick1987]

When is the deadline for Mike Brown to be cited ?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

God only knows no one seems to have any interest discussing rugby.

That said, in the hope someone actually wants to, I'm going to suggest the off-topic stuff goes elsewhere, and people only post in here to talk about rugby...

Dictator!

I think citing have to be announced by Monday/Tuesday not sure though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think club rugby has a two day time limit, not sure about international.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Ireland would have lost anyway.

The Irish media sound so doom and gloom but I think this was the turning point from our slump. Henshaw finally got his chance and took it

Sexton, McCloskey, Henshaw, Ringrose, Gilroy - enough pace and power to take us forward.

Words of wisdom.

 

[Amiga500]

The Irish media sound so doom and gloom

The Irish media are by and by large a bunch of hapless f_kwits.

That includes many ex-players (professionals). Best ignored.

 

[TommiG88]

The Irish media are by and by large a bunch of hapless f_kwits.

That includes many ex-players (professionals). Best ignored.

All think media in the majority of countries are silly people.

 

[dunney77]

As if England are going to win a Slam :lol:

 

[TommiG88]

As if England are going to win a Slam :lol:

Don't tempt fate, you'll regret it.

 

[dunney77]

Don't tempt fate, you'll regret it.

I think they will - it's just come out of nowhere!

 

[AzaMatt]

on the subject of brown, i cannot see how he avoids getting cited. i dont believe he intentionally meant to kick murray's head but after a few kicks he clearly looks at the ball/murray and carrys on kicking right next to his head, thats reckless although im not sure weather that warrants a ban etc. in my opinion though he does deserve a ban, you cant do that right next to someones face and nobody can argue that he didnt know murray's head was there, if he knew where the ball was, he knew where murray's head was

 

[Saint4805]

As if England are going to win a Slam :lol:

I think they will edge out Wales. The WC was a perfect storm of a tough group, poor leadership & tactics and underperforming players. The talent and capability is clearly there.

 

[johnmac99]

God knows why I'm indulging you but here goes.

Starts with Haskell on his knees slowing the ball down - penalty advantage Ireland.

Brown kicks at the ball, clips Murray on the backswing, Murray pulls the ball towards him - yes could be a penalty had it not already been advantage to Ireland.

Brown's 2nd kick, catches Murray full on in the face - reckless act no.1 - And to those arguing it's down to the supporting Irish players movement, I'd disagree. Contact is made before Brown starts to go backwards from the counter ruck.

Murray lifts hands (with ball) towards face, as y'know, getting kicked in the face hurts a bit.

Brown switches feet, kicks the ball, misses Murray's face this time, still too close for my liking.

Brown kicks again, and once again catches Murray full in face. Reckless. Again. Ball isn't really in Murray's control at this point.

Whether Murray holds on to the ball or not, you just can't keep kicking at him like that, especially when you're that close to his face! He made contact 3 times!

Again back to my point. Ireland are never the ones to get penalized there either way, since Haskell has already cynically tried to kill the ball. Ball would probably have been in Sexton's hands by that point had he not done it! Even if you take the advantage to Ireland out of the equation, there's a very big shout for a penalty reversal and a card for Brown's actions.

I recorded the game and have just watched this over and over again and write this using the pause button etc. to get the sequence right.

It starts with Care not rolling away from tackling 19 (penalty), although its hard with Haskell on top of you, then when Irish troops arrive, a ruck is formed and Murray dives into the ruck going off his feet to get the ball.(penalty - advantage over).

The ref should now stop the game to deal with the initial infringement by Care.

Haskell then tries to lean over to get the ball and is cleared out sideways by Toner. This creates the path to the ball that is still being held in the ruck by Murray and Brown steps into the ruck legally and kicks at the ball which he misses. Murray decides to now pull the ball into his body (penalty for not releasing) and as Brown tries to kick the ball again,he is pushed back by Van de Flier who is now bridging Murray, and Brown's heel catches Murray as it swings back (accidental). This is the only time Brown catches Murray in the face even though he kicks the ball two more times while it is being held by Murray who is still holding the ball illegally.

Now the ref stops the game.

The officials then correctly give a penalty against Care and a YC for it being a cynical action, which I thought was harsh.

I have no sympathy for Murray who brought it all on himself. If he had released the ball he could have used his hands and arms to protect his head while the legal rucking was carried out. They were playing Rugby Football not pat-a-cake.

If Brown gets cited then it will be a poor day for Rugby.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Brown tries to kick the ball again,he is pushed back by Van de Flier who is now bridging Murray, and Brown's heel catches Murray as it swings back (accidental).

It doesn't matter he still broke a rule in kicking him, it's the same as accidentally taking someone out in the air, you also can't kick a ball out of a players hand regardless of whether he's on the ground or not so there's another rule broken

I have no sympathy for Murray who brought it all on himself. If he had released the ball he could have used his hands and arms to protect his head while the legal rucking was carried out. They were playing Rugby Football not pat-a-cake.

Murray brought **** all on himself, all that should have happened in that scenario was Murray concede a penalty, had England not already infringed, not get kicked in the head.

If Brown gets cited then it will be a poor day for Rugby.

Rugby must have had a lot of poor days then considering there is precedent (I can't find the exact case but there were judgments stating you can't kick a ball out of a player's hands in the same situation) to cite Brown.

The he more I look at this the more I think it's Brown being a twatty hard man and taking the laws into his own hands because he can't ruck for ****. If a players holding on and you have the access he had to the ball you jackal because, as I have said, it is illegal to kick the ball out of the player's hands. Rugby is a tough sport but not as tough as some of the resident tough guys in the community like to make it out to be and contact with the head should be intolerable when it could have been prevented like this case here. If Brown gets away with this it'd be as bad a decision as PO'C getting away with kicking Dave Kearney in the head a couple years ago.

 

[johnmac99]

It doesn't matter he still broke a rule in kicking him, it's the same as accidentally taking someone out in the air, you also can't kick a ball out of a players hand regardless of whether he's on the ground or not so there's another rule broken

Murray brought **** all on himself, all that should have happened in that scenario was Murray concede a penalty, had England not already infringed, not get kicked in the head.


Rugby must have had a lot of poor days then considering there is precedent (I can't find the exact case but there were judgments stating you can't kick a ball out of a player's hands in the same situation) to cite Brown.

The he more I look at this the more I think it's Brown being a twatty hard man and taking the laws into his own hands because he can't ruck for ****. If a players holding on and you have the access he had to the ball you jackal because, as I have said, it is illegal to kick the ball out of the player's hands. Rugby is a tough sport but not as tough as some of the resident tough guys in the community like to make it out to be and contact with the head should be intolerable when it could have been prevented like this case here. If Brown gets away with this it'd be as bad a decision as PO'C getting away with kicking Dave Kearney in the head a couple years ago.

A player in the air is acting within the rules, while Murray was acting illegally and placing himself in danger.

If you have never seen players kick a ball out of a players hands when he is lying with the ball on the ground then you haven't seen much rugby. Ireland did it themselves earlier in the game at a ruck.

You just don't like Brown. If it had been anyone else your comments wouldn't be so vociferous.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A player in the air is acting within the rules, while Murray was acting illegally and placing himself in danger.

Irrelevant, Brown still broke the rules

If you have never seen players kick a ball out of a players hands when he is lying with the ball on the ground then you haven't seen much rugby. Ireland did it themselves earlier in the game at a ruck.

Irrelevant, it's still against the rules just like a crooked feed but far more dangerous.

You just don't like Brown. If it had been anyone else your comments wouldn't be so vociferous.

Irrelevant, it doesn't make my points invalid.

Why do you criticise Murray to the point that you feel he deserved to be kicked in the head while holding on the ground but give Brown a free pass for also breaking the rules of the game? Nobody is going to stop holding the ball on the deck, it's the most common offence in rugby and that still doesn't deter players, players might think twice about recklessly throwing the boot in where it shouldn't be, which it shouldn't while the ball is in the players hand, and possibly causing serious damage.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No citation, kicking people in the head is ok in rugby now... As long as you don't really mean to do it! Makes me feel that bit more wary walking onto a pitch.

 

[ncurd]

I think we've been explaining it for 2 days and rugby authoritit's agree with us. Time to give it a rest I think.

The lesson is simple kicking of the ball is allowed in the ruck. If you don't want kicked yourself don't hold on to it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think we've been explaining it for 2 days and rugby authoritit's agree with us. Time to give it a rest I think.

The lesson is simple kicking of the ball is allowed in the ruck. If you don't want kicked yourself don't hold on to it.

I think it's crazy that you can break a law of the game and get away with it because there is no intent, it's probably the law student in me talking like in the rest of this thread. World Rugby should use this to make their rules clearer because there was at least one mistake regarding this incident and it's because they have so many contradicting clarifications to their rule book.

And I'd done with this thread! It was some ride friends...

 

[Maverick1987]

on the subject of brown, i cannot see how he avoids getting cited. i dont believe he intentionally meant to kick murray's head but after a few kicks he clearly looks at the ball/murray and carrys on kicking right next to his head, thats reckless although im not sure weather that warrants a ban etc. in my opinion though he does deserve a ban, you cant do that right next to someones face and nobody can argue that he didnt know murray's head was there, if he knew where the ball was, he knew where murray's head was

http://www.skysports.com/share/10186501

He avoided it ......

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The Irish press are trying to provide their own evidence on the matter

here is there footage of what Brown did to Murray according to them.