[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 1: Scotland vs. England (06/02/2016)

[McTallshort]

There is a difference, ad I suspect you know it. There was zero prospect of Farrell ever gettingin front of Laidlaw, but the crucial difference is this: usually, a blocking scrum half will actually be leaning back into his opposite number while making no attempt to pay the ball. In the incident we're talking about, Laidlaw simply held his line, made no attempt to physically impede Farrell, and Farrell reacted with a tantrum.

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I'm not sure what you're suggesting. How do you know he couldn't have known? The touch judge saw the knock on. Is it inconceivable that Cole did?

A shove in the back is hardly a tantrum but you keep trying to take some crumbs of comfort in what was another very ordinary performance at home from your rugby team.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

This was our little article on the game (http://fourballsblog.blogspot.fr/2016/02/5-things-england-learned-from-their.html), but to break it down it effectively comes down to the following:

1) Got the job done
2) The midfield just didn't work, we desperately need Slade and because he is injured the 12 shirt has to go to Devoto, and not to Farrell, who has earned himself the 10 shirt for his club form. Also Daly in, sorry JJ.
3) Set pieces, very nice
4)Billy V, very nice
5) Strength in depth, very nice

Looking forward to a more rotated side, I know people may be scared of Italy after pushing France, but seriously, we consistently put on about 40 points on Italy, and they struggled at the World Cup too. Good chance to even play Devoto AND Daly, which would be awesome, and maybe Itoje will pop up, but I think Hask to 6 and Kvesic in at 7 is a must.

 

[Tony Manx]

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. How do you know he couldn't have known? The touch judge saw the knock on. Is it inconceivable that Cole did?

I am suggesting that there was sufficient doubt as to whether it was a "knock on" by a team mate or a "knock back" by a Scottish player to confuse the referee (who did not stop the game until the linesman called it), never mind Cole!

Think Joubert in Scottish RWC game...

At the most, the ref should have given a scrum against Cole for accidental offside....it has been given as such many times in the past where incidents such as this are so quick and capable of either interpretation!

A penalty should be given only where it is obvious to all that it was a knock on!

 

[Which Tyler]

A penalty should be given only where it is obvious to all that it was a knock on!

Can't really agree with that; IMO:
It's a scrum if the ball hits him
It's a penalty if he picks up the ball (intent is irrelevant, he's playing the ball whilst offside)
It's a yellow card if it's obvious to all that he was playing the ball whilst offside

 

[Tony Manx]

We agree.........to disagree!

 

[TommiG88]

All this malarkey about being offside. Scotland got away with one early in the first half where Nel was coming back from an offside position after a knock on and kicked the ball.

These things happen, why is everyone focusing on the little errors belt the ref. The result was fair.

On to the next game. I will shamefully be supporting the Welsh.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

All this malarkey about being offside. Scotland got away with one early in the first half where Nel was coming back from an offside position after a knock on and kicked the ball.

These things happen, why is everyone focusing on the little errors belt the ref. The result was fair.

On to the next game. I will shamefully be supporting the Welsh.

Surely that not worth one bad Scot! Think about what you're doing man!!!

 

[TommiG88]

Surely that not worth one bad Scot! Think about what you're doing man!!!

It's not that. It's my valentines gift to my welsh girlfriend haha.

Oh, and a charm from pandora.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's not that. It's my valentines gift to my welsh girlfriend haha.

Oh, and a charm from pandora.

Haha! That's one big sacrifice!!!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

In case no one's seen it, Daly and Kvesic have both been released to their clubs for the week, while Itoje and Beaumont have been added in. EJ spoke about how in Rome he intends to put out a lighter, more mobile pack, but I don't see how he intends to do this now that he's released Kvesic. I expect Mako to get the start over Marler and I hope that Itoje is at 6 over Robshaw. Sadly, I expect Haskell to remain at 7 with Kvesic being released, unless he plans on starting Clifford there which I see as unlikely. Would also prefer to see Beaumont in over Binny. Despite Binny's performance on the weekend, I Don't feel that he'd be able to perform to such a standard with the climate and conditions in Rome. Also unhappy with Daly being let go, Joseph has been out of form all season and showed no reason to be retained on the weekend. Ford also needs to be dropped to the bench at least, no confidence and kicks the ball every time he gets it. Ideal team with the selections made would be:

1. Mako
2. Hartley (Would prefer George, but Hartley's captain so that won't happen)
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Kruis
6. Itoje
7. Clifford
8. Beaumont (A back row with 1 cap is risky, I know, but Robshaw, Haskell and Binny are just too big and slow for Rome)
9. Youngs (Care forgot that it was his job to take the ball out of the scrum on the weekend, if it was my choice I'd be dropping him for Simpson)
10. Faz
11. Nowell
12. Devoto
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown

16. George
17. Marler
18. Hill
19. Lawes
20. Vunipola
21. Care
22. Ford
23. Goode (I don't understand how he stays in the squad over Daly. Complete mystery to everyone)

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Ffs

Alex Goode must have some pictures of someone doing something to the queen.

Eddie Jones on the troll again. "We could pick a faster pack" is like "removes up to 100% of dandruff" a useless empty promise. He's going to start Haskell at 7 again who played well in a limited role. That means no link, no jackal and less quick ball.

 

[Tony Manx]

All this malarkey about being offside. Scotland got away with one early in the first half where Nel was coming back from an offside position after a knock on and kicked the ball.

These things happen, why is everyone focusing on the little errors belt the ref. The result was fair.

On to the next game. I will shamefully be supporting the Welsh.

Not knocking anyone....just clarifying the laws!!

 

[TommiG88]

Haha! That's one big sacrifice!!!

If Wales were on for the grand slam it would be an entirely different story

 

[Colombia]

All of which I struggle to think how Columbia can describe Haskell as being exceptional. Robshaw use to make like a bajillion tackles but we found out in the end we needed a proper openside and we just traded one guy for another that does the exact same thing.

I was judging his performance as a player and the contribution he made.


Eddie Jones:

But the head coach was pointedly rich in his praise for Haskell. "We don't have a Test seven at the moment. Haskell did a super job at the weekend. He made 22 tackles. If McCaw makes 22 tackles, everyone raves about him. There is an obsession with turnovers here.

"We're not obsessed with turn-overs. We're obsessed with having a good defence, which we did against Scotland. We didn't allow them to cross the line. And he was a genuine driving force as part of that defence. There is a rumour going round that James Haskell has got bad hands. That's not true. He's got terrible hands. But he used his hands really well. He was dynamite in defence.

"That was a great openside display, not in the traditional sense but in the way we are defending. It was first-class."

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I was judging his performance as a player and the contribution he made.

The thing is, McCaw's tackle stats aren't what made him the best 7 in the world, it was his ability at the breakdown to slow down the ball, get turnovers and protect his own ball. That's what people cared about because that is the primary duty of a 7. We could get away with not challenging the breakdown against Scotland and being slow to our own, we won't get away with it against Wales or Ireland. When they repeatedly drive us off our own ball, slow us down and prevent us getting at their ball then maybe Jones will accept that you need at least 1 person with good breakdown ability in the team and that is definitely not Haskell.

 

[Colombia]

The thing is, McCaw's tackle stats aren't what made him the best 7 in the world, it was his ability at the breakdown to slow down the ball, get turnovers and protect his own ball. That's what people cared about because that is the primary duty of a 7. We could get away with not challenging the breakdown against Scotland and being slow to our own, we won't get away with it against Wales or Ireland. When they repeatedly drive us off our own ball, slow us down and prevent us getting at their ball then maybe Jones will accept that you need at least 1 person with good breakdown ability in the team and that is definitely not Haskell.

Jones is up at 4am every day and works on the game of rugby until 9 or 10pm every evening. He played to a high level in the game, coached for the past 20 enjoying high levels of success. It was Eddie Jones who discovered George Smith as a teenager and pioneered the notion of two opensides at test level in Smith & Waugh. Ask yourself, do we really have anything to teach Jones about the breakdown? or indeed the sport of rugby in general?

I'm not saying he's unquestionable, but he will have reviewed the breakdown with a fine tooth comb and if he is content with what he saw, I'm not sure why others keep going on about it.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Edit: I replied to a post from ages ago that has no relevance now.

 

[nickdnz]

The thing is, McCaw's tackle stats aren't what made him the best 7 in the world, it was his ability at the breakdown to slow down the ball, get turnovers and protect his own ball. That's what people cared about because that is the primary duty of a 7. We could get away with not challenging the breakdown against Scotland and being slow to our own, we won't get away with it against Wales or Ireland. When they repeatedly drive us off our own ball, slow us down and prevent us getting at their ball then maybe Jones will accept that you need at least 1 person with good breakdown ability in the team and that is definitely not Haskell.

Agreed.

The thing is - there are 7's out there who make a tonne of tackles. Dusatoir was one of them. But if you're rating your 7 simply by their tackle count, why criticize Chris Robshaw in the first place? He made plenty of tackles as a 7.

The point is that of you look at the All Blacks, so many points are scored from turnover ball and counterattacks. If you're content to tackle for 20 phases, you're losing a lot of attacking opportunities and just limiting the time you can go on the offensive. It's simply dumb not to have a specialist 7; I have no idea why Eddy Jones thinks otherwise.

 

[stus768]

I'm hoping EJ is picking Robshaw and Haskell because he wants an experienced team to start with known quantities as players. So they're there because of the number of caps they've got.

Also when people are saying that two coaches haven't picked Kvesic there must be something we're not seeing I don't agree. Firstly one of those coaches was Lancaster and secondly I believe that EJones might have looked at Kvesic if he had more caps. So it's lancasters fault again!

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm hoping EJ is picking Robshaw and Haskell because he wants an experienced team to start with known quantities as players. So they're there because of the number of caps they've got.

Also when people are saying that two coaches haven't picked Kvesic there must be something we're not seeing I don't agree. Firstly one of those coaches was Lancaster and secondly I believe that EJones might have looked at Kvesic if he had more caps. So it's lancasters fault again!

Eddie Jones has stated there is a breakdown problem and that he is looking for an international 7. I don't think it's lack of experience that's holding him back, must be how he is in training.

Maybe he gets cleared out too easily? Or gives too much ground in the tackle? Or has a poor attitude at training?

Who knows, but what we do know is Jones is looking for an openside and at the moment chosen Haskell over kvesic, must be a reason for it, he is an experienced coach.