[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 1: Ireland vs. Wales (07/02/2016)

[munstermuffin]

The two props were part of a creaky scum, which is the prime component of their job. So, they can't be rated good.

None of our tight forwards turned over ball at a ruck today IIRC. Also, as I said before, we frequently overcommitted to attacking rucks too.

Backrow did OK, but not great. We didn't tie in enough Welsh defenders on a frequent basis and left ourselves very light on runners facing against a full defensive line.

Murray and Sexton didn't exactly push the game into the Welsh 22 too often - it was kicks from the centres or outside backs that did that. Both, while not having bad games, didn't impose themselves either - although both threatened to at times, and Murray was producing some good stuff for about 10 mins around his try. Although he did revert back to his bad habit of playing the direction he is facing a bit too often, and not recognising our options were better if he'd turned.

Centres didn't manage to isolate the shooter all day. Not aided by a fullback who couldn't recognise it. Wingers didn't see much ball in decent space.


All in all, a competent, average to good performance. But the team ratings should average out at no more than about a 6 to 6.5. Above that and your not setting your standards high enough.

At start I noted Whites issues regards scrum as all issues seemed to be at his side. I rated McGrath highly as his work around park was superb.

We didn't turn over much but it was simply a war of attrition. It's just they way the game went.

I'd have to disagree on backrow. All of them carried superbly, tackled like demons and kept going. Standers run took Tipuric away for Murray try.

Disagree again regards half backs. I don't think you factor in the elements. Both were very influential.

Next point your mad to just slam Zebo regardless but overall views of most post match analysts were that both centres played their best game as a partnership. Henshaw and Roberts nearly killed each other.

My expectations are that we challenge while expanding our game and transitioning the squad. Schmidt is doing that. 4 of our starters never went to RWC. Few more weren't in 23 vs RWC. It's slow steps but Schmidt is reorganising

 

[munstermuffin]

I thought Ireland's attack showed signs that it can be good but they looked rusty. Neither Robbie Henshaw nor Jared Payne have a lot of game time recently. With a couple of games under their belt they'll get better.

Zebo dropped and misjudged high balls. kicked directly to touch and didn't seem to cover as well as Rob Kearney. What he did do was offer a counter attacking threat which Kearney doesn't. He's a frustrating player but hugely talented.

- - - Updated - - -

Ratings from the42.ie here:
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-player-ratings-wales-six-nations-2589692-Feb2016/

You'd swear Ireland were awesome. 7s, 8s and 9s out of 10 almost across the board!

If agree Zebos positioning was poor at times and kicking at times too but I've no doubt Schmidt will sort them too. If you could combine Kearneys positioning and high ball withZebo attack it'd be great but I just think overall people aren't assessing this in an overall way. That team deserve credit like Amiga I'd disagree Sexton was a 5

 

[Amiga500]

If your happy with that, thats your own lookout.

But it'd be no wonder Munster are going nowhere if that's the attitude down there.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

4 of our starters never went to RWC.

True but it's hard to deny that Andrew Trimble and Tommy O'Donnell likely would have done so had they not been injured in the case of the latter and just overcoming injury in the case of the former. To say today brought about a sea change in personnel is false. That's not aimed at you munstermuffin, just a general observation.

Joe Schmidt is a great coach and cops too much flak for someone who has had such a positive influence on Irish rugby but it wasn't an overly progressive team selection today. Nathan White over Tadhg Furlong is short termist - I suspect it's because of White's history of captaincy and Ireland being short of leaders. Jared Payne in the centre ahead of either Stuart McCloskey or Luke Marshall is also a short term move. He was limited in what he could do in the second row but would Ultan Dillane not be a more progressive selection than Donnacha Ryan on the bench? Likewise Sean Cronin over Rob Herring.

Perhaps we'll see some of these changes later in the tournament against Scotland and Italy. If Ireland want to win the World Cup in 2019 (if the goal is anything less it's an acceptance of failure), they need to make positive changes. CJ Stander is one such change and hopefully he'll push to be Ireland's No8 from now on. To give the coach a bunch of credit, I thought it was an odd decision to pick him at 6 when Rhys Ruddock is in such good form but he repaid the faith in him in spades.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Irish injuries are a big hurdle.
Wales played some really good rugby and should count themselves a little unlucky.

 

[corny]

For Ireland.
- Defensive structure was really good for us.
- Zebo showed what Kearney does and doesn't provide in equal measure. He has an eye for a gap but his positional sense is...well its not good! He was on the far touchline when Davies kicked through for their try.
- We lost shape a few times in attack. I'll accept that though. New team, haven't played together, the Welsh line is famed for their pressure.
- As i suspected prior to the game all the talk about losing POC's leadership was complete bull****. Best, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, basically all the senior players grabbed a hold of the game from the whistle. Sexton even had time to tell the referee to remind Warburton he's just playing the game, not reffing it.
- On the evidence we can cut loose against the French. Linebreaks are normally at a premium against Wales. We had several. The French defensive line looks abject.

Just a shame we couldn't capitalise on our linebreaks. Mistakes after them cost us a good few points and when the Welsh defence isn't coughing up penalties you have to make those stick.

For Wales? They'll have their regrets, no doubt. Slow line speed at the start of the game, box kick that led to Sextons last penalty. They did do well to capitalise on the one area they had the advantage...the scrum. Got them back into the game. The lads who haven't had much game time (Williams, Warburton, Priestland etc) all played their part. It'll have to concern them that they just went sideways in attack the entire game though. That and a reserve Irish team got parity out of them. Imagine what they'd have got out of a full strength side. Perish the thought.

 

[munstermuffin]

If your happy with that, thats your own lookout.

But it'd be no wonder Munster are going nowhere if that's the attitude down there.

Bit of a low ****ty comment. Especially when it comes from a province who've got special dispensation and have never done anything in a meaningful European cup.

 

[munstermuffin]

True but it's hard to deny that Andrew Trimble and Tommy O'Donnell likely would have done so had they not been injured in the case of the latter and just overcoming injury in the case of the former. To say today brought about a sea change in personnel is false. That's not aimed at you munstermuffin, just a general observation.

Joe Schmidt is a great coach and cops too much flak for someone who has had such a positive influence on Irish rugby but it wasn't an overly progressive team selection today. Nathan White over Tadhg Furlong is short termist - I suspect it's because of White's history of captaincy and Ireland being short of leaders. Jared Payne in the centre ahead of either Stuart McCloskey or Luke Marshall is also a short term move. He was limited in what he could do in the second row but would Ultan Dillane not be a more progressive selection than Donnacha Ryan on the bench? Likewise Sean Cronin over Rob Herring.

Perhaps we'll see some of these changes later in the tournament against Scotland and Italy. If Ireland want to win the World Cup in 2019 (if the goal is anything less it's an acceptance of failure), they need to make positive changes. CJ Stander is one such change and hopefully he'll push to be Ireland's No8 from now on. To give the coach a bunch of credit, I thought it was an odd decision to pick him at 6 when Rhys Ruddock is in such good form but he repaid the faith in him in spades.

But it's an attempt to change style. Like TOD may have gone to RWC but like its a hard 1 to explain. Not much change in squad but in 23.
On selections I think White over Furlong was because of the changes elsewhere. Ryan will still be there next RWC and hooker I still don't know. Regards centre I agree Payne is our best 15 and 2 Ulster lads good enough to go centre but Schmidt wants Payne as centre. But I understand point.
On CJ he deserved his start today. But he earned it at 8. But as you say Schmidt made a call and it came up trumps. But I think the changes will come or else Schmidt has a memo of stay winning until next year and then see what his career is at end of contract.

 

[munstermuffin]

For Ireland.
- Defensive structure was really good for us.
- Zebo showed what Kearney does and doesn't provide in equal measure. He has an eye for a gap but his positional sense is...well its not good! He was on the far touchline when Davies kicked through for their try.
- We lost shape a few times in attack. I'll accept that though. New team, haven't played together, the Welsh line is famed for their pressure.
- As i suspected prior to the game all the talk about losing POC's leadership was complete bull****. Best, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, basically all the senior players grabbed a hold of the game from the whistle. Sexton even had time to tell the referee to remind Warburton he's just playing the game, not reffing it.
- On the evidence we can cut loose against the French. Linebreaks are normally at a premium against Wales. We had several. The French defensive line looks abject.

Just a shame we couldn't capitalise on our linebreaks. Mistakes after them cost us a good few points and when the Welsh defence isn't coughing up penalties you have to make those stick.

For Wales? They'll have their regrets, no doubt. Slow line speed at the start of the game, box kick that led to Sextons last penalty. They did do well to capitalise on the one area they had the advantage...the scrum. Got them back into the game. The lads who haven't had much game time (Williams, Warburton, Priestland etc) all played their part. It'll have to concern them that they just went sideways in attack the entire game though. That and a reserve Irish team got parity out of them. Imagine what they'd have got out of a full strength side. Perish the thought.

Good post.
Just on this would we all agree the big winners will be France and Scotland as they get an extra day and had a lot less physical damage done.

 

[corny]

Good post.
Just on this would we all agree the big winners will be France and Scotland as they get an extra day and had a lot less physical damage done.

I'm not sure what good it'll do them though! Will Scotland stop Wales? I highly doubt it. Will France stop Ireland? Its not so long ago a trip to Paris would cause sleepness nights for us. Now, i think they carry the baggage against us. We wiped them out in the WC and on the evidence of yesterday have they improved greatly? Again, i highly doubt it.

Wales V England, Ireland V England is where the tournaments at for me.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm not sure what good it'll do them though! Will Scotland stop Wales? I highly doubt it. Will France stop Ireland? Its not so long ago a trip to Paris would cause sleepness nights for us. Now, i think they carry the baggage against us. We wiped them out in the WC and on the evidence of yesterday have they improved greatly? Again, i highly doubt it.

Wales V England, Ireland V England is where the tournaments at for me.

Can't argue with that but physically that took its toll today. Just watch Sexton when he went off. Every player physically went to a limit today.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

There's no way that game can be considered completely positive. The scrum was poor, which is ridiculous considering the age of our TH combined with his lack of caps, what's he doing there?
The breakdown wasn't as fruitful as it should have been considering our intensity and success in the collisions, partly lack of accuracy, partly overly strict reffing.
Halfbacks didn't kick enough, it's all well and good trying to play exciting stuff but when you're going through the phases behind your own 10m line and not kicking the ball it's inviting the opposition to win a penalty and three points, we got away with it at times.
Our wings can't attack, whether it's an issue with our 10-12-13 axis or just a lack of intelligence, there was no hope of us playing with width successfully today and putting a winger through, the one time we did Trimble was painfully slow, possibly too slow for international rugby?!
Zebo showed how badly Kearney needs replacing, either through him playing 15 for Munster from now on or trying Henshaw or Olding there in the future or both! His positioning was so far away from that of an international fullback it was terrifying, he was outplayed by Liam Williams in every facet of play and had Priestland noticed and focused in on his incompetence that game would have been lost. He has the potential, which he showed in fits and starts, but huge improvement is needed.

Positives have all pretty much been [over]stated so I'll leave them.
Good platform, massive improvement required, cants see anything but 3-5 changes this week.

 

[lynam1104]

One thing thats crossed my mind, given how important Payne is defensively (which he proved today beyond doubt IMO) would it be worth keeping him there putting McCloskey in and moving Henshaw back to 15? Something I reckon work a thing about, if not a go at some point.

 

[munstermuffin]

One thing thats crossed my mind, given how important Payne is defensively (which he proved today beyond doubt IMO) would it be worth keeping him there putting McCloskey in and moving Henshaw back to 15? Something I reckon work a thing about, if not a go at some point.

Wouldn't be against it. Just watched highlights and must say the balance of backrow for us was very good. Think there'll definitely be a few changes for next week.
Few questions is if SOB comes in who'll lose out of 15/23?
Will any other changes happen.
Furlong? D. Ryan?

 

[munstermuffin]

Wouldn't be against it. Just watched highlights and must say the balance of backrow for us was very good. Think there'll definitely be a few changes for next week.
Few questions is if SOB comes in who'll lose out of 15/23?
Will any other changes happen.
Furlong? D. Ryan?

 

[big ginger 8]

Ignoring everything else, this poor scrum thing is a bit of a myth. Wales were wheeling in and boring in on White. As with most areas of the game the reffing got it wrong and even if you want to say it was poor, the problems were on White's side so using the scrum to knock McGrath's performance is completely wrong. For him to play 80 and put in the performance he did today is incredible. That's all I'm going into on this match or I can see a prolonged argument ahead of me.

 

[Amiga500]

Ignoring everything else, this poor scrum thing is a bit of a myth. Wales were wheeling in and boring in on White.

If the ref isn't going to call it, its up to you to deal with it on the pitch. i.e. McGrath start boring in and collapse their TH first.

 

[corny]

If the ref isn't going to call it, its up to you to deal with it on the pitch. i.e. McGrath start boring in and collapse their TH first.

What got me was that the Welsh were smarter than us in that area. Garces knows nothing about the scrum. He justs shouts STA-BIL-IT-EEE and hopes for the best. He also always rewards the team who move forward. How they get to move forward isn't a concern. The Welsh knew that and more than once their back 5 just broke off and ran forward. Obvious reset for other refs but a Wales penalty for Garces. He just doesn't do resets i suppose! I don't hold it against him though. He's a good ref at everything else.

 

[dullonien]

Disappointed we didn't come away from Dublin with a win. The draw was probably a fair reflection of the game as a whole, but we put ourselves in position to win with 8min left, then handed the draw back to Ireland on a silver platter.

However, there were some positives. Rob Evans' display was encouraging, and we appeared to try to play a wider more expansive game (as did Ireland). The skills and accuracy of both sides needs to vastly improve though, if we want to play that brand of rugby. Ireland managed to get on the outside of us, better than we did them, but in general, neither side really managed to tie in the defenders before going wide.

I hope both sides continue to evolve their games in that direction. It'll take time, and maybe some changes in personnel, but if we aspire to improve, it needs to happen.

 

[Hendo74]

Great game all in all. Both sides hugely committed but pretty good-natured too.

Ireland made up for their injury worries with a great attitude and moments of class when it mattered, plus lightning speed at the breakdown.

Wales will be disappointed not to have won, either through going 13-0 down early or by giving away a cheap penalty later on. However, it could've gone either way so they shouldn't be too downcast. In terms of style, they did seem to have a little more urgency in getting the ball wide, but Ireland's defence was generally excellent and managed to withstand the pressure.

Thought Roberts was awesome; Faletau, J Davies and Warburton also very good. Tipuric didn't get many chances to work his magic, whilst AWJ was maybe a little quiet (by his high standards anyway) and G Davies a little off the pace? L Williams did well enough (Anscombe must be gutted!) and will only improve. Front 5 pretty impressive (apart from Baldwin's "butterfingers" moment...). Strong bench as well.

However, a real plus point was Priestland. Drop-kicks aside, I thought he really stepped up under considerable pressure, passed nicely and kicked well. I do think that without Biggar's injury Wales would've won (his departure took the wind out of their sails for a while), but Priestland played really well and showed that he has much to offer.