[2015 TRC] Australia v New Zealand in Sydney (08/08/2015)

[RoosTah]

That's very strange. Given that many of the Maroons players weren't born in QLD and play for NSW teams at the NRL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbgShiaal6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Haha yeah well they have ripped us off for a while now. But all the same up there in particular they just ****ing hate us, and the feeling is increasingly mutual among the Blues.

In the Bledisloe meanwhile, I generally feel the Wallabies almost look up to the All Blacks. There's a lot more respect from the Aussie boys (barring the odd guy like Quade Cooper) than there is hate. It's a very competitive form of respect, but it's certainly not as fuelled by animosity as Origin is.

 

[Jaguares]

Haha yeah well they have ripped us off for a while now. But all the same up there in particular they just ****ing hate us, and the feeling is increasingly mutual among the Blues.

In the Bledisloe meanwhile, I generally feel the Wallabies almost look up to the All Blacks. There's a lot more respect from the Aussie boys (barring the odd guy like Quade Cooper) than there is hate. It's a very competitive form of respect, but it's certainly not as fuelled by animosity as Origin is.

Yeah, I can sounds like a die hard Union supporter but I think thats because in the Union culture there is much talk about respect among rivals. The League supporters miss the biff and demand his return

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKUvJEKIbMg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[nickdnz]

Firstly congratulations to Australia. Well deserved win.

From the All Blacks point of view there were some areas we really need to work on.

Negatives:
1. Our set plays were at times poorly executed. The number of times especially in the first half that our front rowers were used as a pivot but both both Franks and Woodcock didn't have enough hands - meant it really killed the momentum of attacks and occasionally cost us ball.
2. We weren't getting the ascendency in the scrums as we possibly should have. Even with the replacements on.
3. Missed tackles! The number of missed tackles from the All Blacks was shocking. Both the tries just had a dumb amount of missed tackles and poor cover defending (Romano was particularly guilty of this).
4. Daniel Carter was very hit and miss. The number of kicks which either didn't go the 10 or went over the dead ball line...He did have some nice clearances - but it didn't look quite like he found his rhythm - should have brought Barrett on a bit sooner IMO.
5. Our rucking was pretty average. Had a lot of turnover ball against us.
6. Sonny Bill William's can't kick.

Positives:
1. Nehe Milner-Skudder was very impressive. He needed a big game to make a decent claim for the RWC squad, and I think he had it. Looked dangerous every time he had the ball and scored two good tries.
2. Conrad looked better this week.

 

[RoosTah]

Yeah, I can sounds like a die hard Union supporter but I think thats because in the Union culture there is much talk about respect among rivals. The League supporters miss the biff and demand his return

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKUvJEKIbMg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Well, generally but not always... I reckon England v South Africa games have a level of animosity akin to the hate of Origin. The games always have bloodied and bruised players leaving the field: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGLNCfypn-c

 

[austingtir]

Firstly congratulations to Australia. Well deserved win.

From the All Blacks point of view there were some areas we really need to work on.

Negatives:
1. Our set plays were at times poorly executed. The number of times especially in the first half that our front rowers were used as a pivot but both both Franks and Woodcock didn't have enough hands - meant it really killed the momentum of attacks and occasionally cost us ball.
2. We weren't getting the ascendency in the scrums as we possibly should have. Even with the replacements on.
3. Missed tackles! The number of missed tackles from the All Blacks was shocking. Both the tries just had a dumb amount of missed tackles and poor cover defending (Romano was particularly guilty of this).
4. Daniel Carter was very hit and miss. The number of kicks which either didn't go the 10 or went over the dead ball line...He did have some nice clearances - but it didn't look quite like he found his rhythm - should have brought Barrett on a bit sooner IMO.
5. Our rucking was pretty average. Had a lot of turnover ball against us.
6. Sonny Bill William's can't kick.

Positives:
1. Nehe Milner-Skudder was very impressive. He needed a big game to make a decent claim for the RWC squad, and I think he had it. Looked dangerous every time he had the ball and scored two good tries.
2. Conrad looked better this week.

Most of that stuff is fairly easily fixed. I have no idea why SBW even attempted that kick straight down Folau's throat. His job is to run it up hard or chip through for someone else not kick the ball away like that. But when the entire backline is constantly under pressure from a average forward effort bad decisions tend to happen.
The Scrums were weird watching them back now we didnt even seem to be putting much effort at all into them (I thought they all looked loosely bound from the top shot, Australia was slightly better but not perfect either). No drive no even attempt to push. They just looked content to hold the Australians at every scrum. The one they wheeled was always going to be an Australian penalty with Barns around. Pathetic really.
Barrett should never of been on the bench. And Sopoaga should start next week but I bet Dan or Barrett will...
Conrad was better but its not hard to improve on woeful and thats about all he did imo.

Id like to see Woodcock gone. Franks... I dunno. Whitelock back.
It should be a given that Messam will start.
Peranara start.
Conrad replaced with... Anybody really I dont care.
Nonu back
Osbourne for Savea. Or Piutau
And just up the effort and look like they want to win not just scrape through everytime.

 

[austingtir]

I hope Sekope Kepu is coming in for some huge praise over there. To me it was him that was dominating our scrum. Even when Nepo came on it was no better and I reckon he's a fairly destructive scrummager.


Sekope's gone to france next year.... Lucky us. Weird though as that performance kinda seemed to come out of nowhere.

 

[nickdnz]

Id like to see Woodcock gone. Franks... I dunno. Whitelock back.
It should be a given that Messam will start.
Peranara start.
Conrad replaced with... Anybody really I dont care.
Nonu back
Osbourne for Savea. Or Piutau
And just up the effort and look like they want to win not just scrape through everytime.

I pretty much disagree with all of that.

Bar Nonu and Whitelock returning.

 

[nik]

Reminds me of the first Bledisloe in 2008. Was played in Sydney and ABs were just really poor. They tried to go out wide too soon rather than taking it up the guts. The following week at Eden Park they turned things around with a strong and commanding performance. Thats the beauty of Bledisloe, you get another chance the following week to turn things around. From ABs perspective, I am sure they cannot wait to go back to their backyard and put up strong performance to defend the Bledisloe and Eden Park history. Obviously the ABs need to step up but it seems as if they have been holding back and trying things rather than showing their true form. I believe they wanted to peak in the world cup rather than before it. But they definitely have to come out next week all guns blazing if they want to defend the Bledisloe.

 

[smartcooky]

Reminds me of the first Bledisloe in 2008. Was played in Sydney and ABs were just really poor. They tried to go out wide too soon rather than taking it up the guts. The following week at Eden Park they turned things around with a strong and commanding performance. Thats the beauty of Bledisloe, you get another chance the following week to turn things around. From ABs perspective, I am sure they cannot wait to go back to their backyard and put up strong performance to defend the Bledisloe and Eden Park history. Obviously the ABs need to step up but it seems as if they have been holding back and trying things rather than showing their true form. I believe they wanted to peak in the world cup rather than before it. But they definitely have to come out next week all guns blazing if they want to defend the Bledisloe.

And the parallels don't stop there.

That was Robbie Deans' first Bledisloe Cup match as Wallabies coach just as this was Michael Cheika's first.

Both games were won on the back of a home win v South Africa beforehand.

It was a 44 point turnaround at Eden Park a week later.

 

[cw0401]

What do you all think about the Boks and Wallabies use of two open side flankers? The Wallabies actually had 4 flankers on as Mumm is usually one. I don't think it worked for the Boks but stats would suggest it may have for Aust. If NZ were to do this, what would your selection be for this?

I'd go 6 McCaw 7 Cane 8 Reid.

From my perspective there were some things that did go well for the ABs in their line out and general running but this was
Et town by poor kicking and mid field defence.

 

[RoosTah]

Yeah, I think Cheika's quite aware of all that... in the post match press conference he said that whilst they were proud of the win, the team hadn't achieved anything yet and it wouldn't mean anything if they get flogged next week

 

[austingtir]

I pretty much disagree with all of that.

Bar Nonu and Whitelock returning.

We cant keep rewarding players with inept performances its as simple as that.

Wyatt has to start for me with Woodcock on the bench we need a way way better platform than this lot dished up for us. Mealamu could be a good option he'd have to be on the bench id think atleast. Moore was just way better than Coles imo.


This David Agnew character is on drugs. He gave Nepo and Woodcock a 7.5. Totally clueless. Nepo missed a sitter of a tackle on White for his try aswell as probably being worse than Woodcock in the scrums. And woodcock was owned by Kepu.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/player-ratings-all-blacks-v-wallabies-q04776

- - - Updated - - -

What do you all think about the Boks and Wallabies use of two open side flankers? The Wallabies actually had 4 flankers on as Mumm is usually one. I don't think it worked for the Boks but stats would suggest it may have for Aust. If NZ were to do this, what would your selection be for this?

I'd go 6 McCaw 7 Cane 8 Reid.

From my perspective there were some things that did go well for the ABs in their line out and general running but this was
Et town by poor kicking and mid field defence.

We just gave them to many opportunities so in this game it worked very well for them. I seriously doubt our forward pack could be this bad as a unit again this year. Cheika may have got a couple of things right in this game but we've now seen exactly what they can do (not that it should of been a surprise) we shouldnt have any trouble at all countering it in the next game. I dont think I see a need for dual open sides. The players selected simply need to be more accurate. The Aussie pack as a unit owned us at the breakdown it wasnt just Pocock and Hooper

The chopping and changing we've been doing in the lead up to this game has left players looking not quite right for me. Kaino looked a bit off as well which was a surprise.

 

[Kiwi_]

How one dimensional is Julian Savea? Seriously. This guy has not developed his game, he has not learned to tackle, he has not learned to challenge the ball at the break down (probably because he misses every tackle he attempts), he has not developed any vision and he's basically stopped what he's in the squad for. Running hard at the opposition. He had a fairly average season for the Canes and he's had an even worse start for the AB's. We will miss Naholo and his skills a lot.. I really hope Julian finds his form again, fast!

His brother on the other hand, is someone we desperately need! Huge presence at the breakdown, a great cleaner and ball carrier, we need him, Kaino looks old and Messam gets penalized off the park! We have better options and better players now, get rid of this old firm nonsense and make the hard better calls.



Also I'm still waiting to hear why Franks and Woodcock are still in the team? I don't mind them in the squad, for experience or what ever angle and spin people put on things, but in the starting team immediately makes us worse than other teams, where's Charlie Faumuina and what's wrong with Crockett? LeLaulau is way better aswell. Hoenstly Hohneck should've been selected as well.

 

[William18]

Dropping Savea would just be silly. He was the best wing in the world last year, plays one game and people want to get rid of it. Some people need to get a grip. The performance last night was just absolutely pathetic. Australia were very, very poor too apart from their loose forward trio. Luckily, I think what went wrong is actually easily fixed. We just need better tactics.

 

[Kiwi_]

Dropping Savea would just be silly. He was the best wing in the world last year, plays one game and people want to get rid of it. Some people need to get a grip. The performance last night was just absolutely pathetic. Australia were very, very poor too apart from their loose forward trio. Luckily, I think what went wrong is actually easily fixed. We just need better tactics.

I never said drop him, I'm just disappointed in his development, this is a guy we need to step up at the RWC and he's just not worked on his weaknesses or strengths enough. Hansen even said he came into the camp "overweight" - That's not the sign of a dedicated professional to me in a RWC year. Simply not good enough mate.

 

[nik]

And the parallels don't stop there.

That was Robbie Deans' first Bledisloe Cup match as Wallabies coach just as this was Michael Cheika's first.

Both games were won on the back of a home win v South Africa beforehand.

It was a 44 point turnaround at Eden Park a week later.

Hence - wait till next week before we start making big calls like dropping Carter, Kaino etc etc. I presume that team would most likely be similar, except maybe Nonu in for SBW (SBW has an injury). I think this team deserves another chance to get things right.

 

[TobesHodges]

I'd go 6 McCaw 7 Cane 8 Reid.

I agree, i think we're seeing more and more as the breakdowns are getting more technical and players need to be there quicker and quicker, the demand for opensides is getting less and less.. Saturday was a prime example playing Pocock and Hooper (although I know Fardy was playing).

 

[austingtir]

I never said drop him, I'm just disappointed in his development, this is a guy we need to step up at the RWC and he's just not worked on his weaknesses or strengths enough. Hansen even said he came into the camp "overweight" - That's not the sign of a dedicated professional to me in a RWC year. Simply not good enough mate.

I agree the instant impression I got from that interview is this guy is another Charlie Faumuina. Huge potential but actually lazy and no vision in comparison to other players.

Iv been saying for a while now Osbourne needed to be selected simply to wake this fool up. I honestly believe Osbourne would be the better selection for the next game IF he had been given a game prior. Throwing him into this one is probably not the best idea it came off with NMS but he's a fullback so likely has a better allround skillset.

Savea has been average this year and the proof in that pudding was the super rugby final. Hansen should have some alarm bells going off in multiple areas now imo. Its not panic stations but it could head in that direction if things dont improve in the next match.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree, i think we're seeing more and more as the breakdowns are getting more technical and players need to be there quicker and quicker, the demand for opensides is getting less and less.. Saturday was a prime example playing Pocock and Hooper (although I know Fardy was playing).

While it worked well for Australia in this particular game im not convinced this is the way to go for us. This game was a diabolical mess in general at the break down if we play dual opensides aswell I feel it might play into Australias hands a bit. NZ just were not accurate enough.

And Pocock and Hooper were good but I thought guys like Moore, Kepu and Mum had just as much influence if not more. The way the rest of the Aussie pack played and the lack of accuracy from NZ allowed these guys to slow a heap of our ball down and make good steals etc.

 

[Kiwi_]

I'm quite concerned where some players heads are at. Aaron Smith was huge for us this season, but since he's put on the Black jersey he's been on another page from our backline and his head space and decision making has been really poor to put it nicely. I would be inclined to pick TJ this weekend and give Aaron a wake up call. Although TJ came on and immediately knocked it on in an attacking scrum. I feel like we have won too many games in the last 10 minutes that we just some how expect to keep doing it. Why can't we put teams away? Some players have come across as casual and lacking effort and clinical decision making that we're so used to.

Cruden been injured is a huge loss, I don't want to be so negative about one game, but it's more than that, starting with Samoa. We don't know what sort of game we want to play, it seems Hansen is pushing this off-load game because we're poor at the breakdown and can't protect our pill that good. Our scrums are weak and we try to avoid them when we can, we no longer have an "attacking" scrum at all, because he continues to play this old men who don't have it anymore, infact our scrums terrible and we often get penalized. This goes for the same with our rolling maul, fortunately we have tidied up our defence in those some what, but the Aussie didn't really attack it too much and when they did we collapsed it..

At least our line out is strong and we're getting steals and good ball more often than not, but we haven't built the right combination at 1st 5 and centre to really punish teams with the good ball we get from it. We really missed Nonu running at the line this week, I can't tell you how little SBW does in this respect, all he does is fall into the tackle and look for some "off-load" that everyone harps on and on about and overrates him, God this guy is average and built up in the press, for goodness sake.
@nik Sadly times running out and we have huge question marks over a lot of players and areas of our game and I believe some guys have slipped off the pace from their lifestyle (Savea) and other guys are simply just too old now and not what they were, not for lack of trying, just the human body can't do it anymore, it's a young mans game sometimes. Guys like McCaw and Throne can do it, but sometimes others can't.

On a positive note, we have some exceptional talent in the outside backs, NMS and Piutau have been excellent as I thought they would be, because they're young hungry and skilful players, both versatile and exactly what we need. I think Sopoanga should get more starts, he works well off Smith and can run the ball exceptionally well, which Carter can no longer do.. I think we might see Barrett at first 5 this week though.

I think we will win the next game, but it will still mask a lot of issues in the side which I don't think we have given ourselves enough time to address and fix, the tight 5 obviously won't be changed which is making me lose sleep at night.

 

[TobesHodges]

I agree I think Sopoaga, Slade maybe should be considered a bit more, the problem for Hansen which has already been bought up about the tight 5 is that it's getting later and later in the day before the RWC to make change after change..

I think in regards to next week the Aussies will play Phipps again as he's not an impact Scrum Half, or Genia (though I don't know if he's injured) with White on the bench again..
I can't see much change at all, going into next week..