[2015 Six Nations] Wales vs England (Round 1)

[yaboyjj]

Torygraph has Corbisiero ahead of Vunipola: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...nglands-Six-Nations-opener-against-Wales.html

Anyone else remember the Six Nations last year? Where Lancaster selected a bizarre bench for the first game, which ended up costing England the match?

But lessons are definitely being learned. And Lancaster hasn't got to the end of the road.

It's just plain dumb, in the clamour to get Easter into the side, they've had to go and select a specialist six as well (mistake 1), then they chose Croft as they 'in-form' flanker replacement (mistake 2), who I suspect is picked because he is a good line-out option ('point of difference') in the eventuality that a lock gets injured. (something doesn't add up here- picking a flanker who does the best lock impression over actually picking a lock).
So we could potentially end up with Kruis, Croft, Robshaw, Easter and Vunipola on the pitch- the breakdown would be a bloodbath (as Croft wanders the touchline doing his winger impression).

 

[Peat]

Torygraph has Corbisiero ahead of Vunipola: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...nglands-Six-Nations-opener-against-Wales.html

Anyone else remember the Six Nations last year? Where Lancaster selected a bizarre bench for the first game, which ended up costing England the match?

But lessons are definitely being learned. And Lancaster hasn't got to the end of the road.

Sarcasm, right?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why Twelvetrees on the bench :huh:
Nowell can cover wing and fullback, and 13 at a push (or May can). Twelvetrees can cover 10 (already covered by Cipriani) and 12.
We lose a winger early on, then what? JJ on the wing?

 

[Crapspray]

Sarcasm, right?

Of course. (Though I realise I was defending him prior to the autumn; I'm starting to regret that now.)

 

[TheSaffycen]

So we are likely to start with
1.Marler 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Kruis 5.Attwood 6.Haskell 7.Robshaw 8.Vunipola
To me that is a really good starting scrum, alot of loose work and power to take on the Welsh. But on the bench we will have
16.Youngs 17.Vunipola :huh: 18.Brookes 19.Easter 20.Croft

 

[Peat]

So you think they'll have both Croft and Easter on the bench? Kitchener, Kvesic, Ewers and half the locks in the country will be crying themselves to sleep tonight! A man who hasn't strung more than three matches together for a year, and a 36 year old who has never been international standard in any position.

Tom Croft's most recent season appearances for Leicester this season:

10/01/2015 - Quins
16/01/2015 - Scarlets
24/01/2015 - Ulster

 

[yaboyjj]

Tom Croft's most recent season appearances for Leicester this season:

10/01/2015 - Quins
16/01/2015 - Scarlets
24/01/2015 - Ulster

The key word was 'more', but in any case it's just Farrellgate all over again- so much for picking player showing form..

 

[Peat]

The key word was 'more', but in any case it's just Farrellgate all over again- so much for picking player showing form..

Played 2 of the 3 games preceding that too. He's been fit and playing rugby consistently for 2 months.

Not really the form pick, I'll give you that, although gods only knows why anyone believed that. Played decently against Ulster though.

 

[Patchey]

This is a mess. Croft in over a real second row and Mako over Corbs are both inexplicable. I just don't understand why either call would be made unless there are some additional injuries we don't know a about.

The lack of Care is typical of the coaches attitude towards him.

No thought Burrell was injured? Having him and 36 both in suggests the coaches still don't know who they'll pick.

Again. No second row cover is insane. Absolutely insane.

Anyone else remember the Six Nations last year? Where Lancaster selected a bizarre bench for the first game, which ended up costing England the match

Quite.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Corbisiero doesn't bother me so much because from what I hear corbisiero hasn't re-peaked following his injury, whilst mako has improved a bit.

 

[goodNumber10]

ok, so now at home and not looking at the squad and trying to post on a phone this is how i think it will play out:

01: Marler
02: hartley
03: Cole
04: Attwood
05: Kruis
06: Croft
07: Robshaw
08: Vunipola
09: Youngs
10: Ford
11: May
12: 36
13: JJ
14: Nowell
15: Brwn

16: Vunipola
17: Youngs
18: Thomas
19: Easter
20: Haskell
21: Wigglesworth
22: Cipriani
23: Burrell

They wont' go 4/4 as that effectively leaves 1 position covering the entire back 5 - that's unworkable in modern rugby, so this is what i Think their Sub-Strategy will be:

Vunipola will not make 80 Minutes but they will try and get as much out of him as possible: so I think they have decided to bank on either Attwood or Croft getting through 80 minutes - if Attwood goes, Easter will drop into 2nd Row and Haskell will replace Vunipola or Croft around 65/70. If Croft goes, then Easter will replace Vunipola and Haskell will replace Croft (dunno if that makes sense).

They are relying on 3 of the back 5 to play 80 minutes against wales.

In the backs the 3rd test new zealand the bench was Care, Cipriani and Burrell, so i think they've shown their hand already and Watson or Nowell will miss out, i think they will look for Cips to cover 10 & 15, LB to cover 12, 13 & wing.

what do people think? Accurate analysis?

Tactically they will go with Vunipola later so they can try and get late scrum dominance if they are chasing the game, it will also give them extra ball carrying if Billy and attwood go off.

 

[Peat]

Corbisiero doesn't bother me so much because from what I hear corbisiero hasn't re-peaked following his injury, whilst mako has improved a bit.

Mako's always been a decent bench sub, but I would rather trust Corbs peaked or not.

I suppose, taken as a whole, the bench makes some sense; Easter can scrummage as well as Kruis, and Croft can jump better than either lock, so between them you sort of have second row cover. Mako covers the loss of Bill's carrying when he comes off. There is a lot of physicality on that bench, and Croft's pace is ideal for when the game opens up. But it just smells weird. You want players to know implicitly, instinctively what they're meant to be doing, what the guy outside them is doing. What we've got is a melange of the unfamiliar and the probably out of position.

Meanwhile, the Welsh are busy off somewhere else, feeling no real need to commentate further on things...

- - - Updated - - -

In the backs the 3rd test new zealand the bench was Care, Cipriani and Burrell, so i think they've shown their hand already and Watson or Nowell will miss out, i think they will look for Cips to cover 10 & 15, LB to cover 12, 13 & wing.

what do people think? Accurate analysis?

Tactically they will go with Vunipola later so they can try and get late scrum dominance if they are chasing the game, it will also give them extra ball carrying if Billy and attwood go off.

Would make more sense for JJ, who has wing experience and more pace, to be emergency wing cover, and to shuffle Nowell/May/Watson back to full-back, but I'm nitpicking.

Intrigued that you've promoted Thomas back ahead of Brookes.

 

[goodNumber10]

Mako's always been a decent bench sub, but I would rather trust Corbs peaked or not.

I suppose, taken as a whole, the bench makes some sense; Easter can scrummage as well as Kruis, and Croft can jump better than either lock, so between them you sort of have second row cover. Mako covers the loss of Bill's carrying when he comes off. There is a lot of physicality on that bench, and Croft's pace is ideal for when the game opens up. But it just smells weird. You want players to know implicitly, instinctively what they're meant to be doing, what the guy outside them is doing. What we've got is a melange of the unfamiliar and the probably out of position.

Meanwhile, the Welsh are busy off somewhere else, feeling no real need to commentate further on things...

- - - Updated - - -



Would make more sense for JJ, who has wing experience and more pace, to be emergency wing cover, and to shuffle Nowell/May/Watson back to full-back, but I'm nitpicking.

Intrigued that you've promoted Thomas back ahead of Brookes.

They may well move JJ to wing, but the point i was making is they will cover it without a specialist on the bench.

on thomas, nowt more in that than a coin flip mate, i don't have a specific preference/belief they'll opt for one or the other - I'm just trying to guess how they'll go.

 

[j'nuh]

Another Lancaster special in head scratching.

 

[Peat]

Genuinely though, what more does Clark have to do? Maybe he's really good at carrying the water out for the other players.

 

[Jbobo]

Lost of different opinions, interesting ones at that, on which team has the better players. For me Wales have the superior first 15 individual players in almost every position when all are fit and firing, but England have much stronger Depth. I think England also have the more consistent general and teamwork play too, which evens it out more. This goes hand in hand with what i just mentioned about Depth. England have the more balanced squad too, but I think as Wales grows it's strength in depth, it will remedy soon.

Not too insightful or analytic, but just my quick thoughts. Please do not be offended if you disagree.

Bearing this in mind with currently injuries/there lack of and form, i'd say i'm quietly confident. However, one or two injuries for Wales could make a huge difference to my perception.

Wales by tree fiddy.

 

[j'nuh]

The only thing I can think of is that Lancaster prefers someone more physical than Clark at 6, and that Clark is seen more as cover for Robshaw.

Can we please just play the Saxons backrow? I genuinely think it is better position-for-position, as a backrow unit and also in the context of the whole pack, than this one.

 

[Maverick1987]

The only thing I can think of is that Lancaster prefers someone more physical than Clark at 6, and that Clark is seen more as cover for Robshaw.

Can we please just play the Saxons backrow? I genuinely think it is better position-for-position, as a backrow unit and also in the context of the whole pack, than this one.

Except have Billy instead of Waldrom .

Ewers, Kvesic and Billy V would make a great back row and they would all be under 23

I seriously think we should brace ourselves for a repeat of 2013 though ...

Lancaster just doesn't have it . None of his calls make sense at all !

I can't believe Rowntree has allowed him to pick Croft over Kvesic and Mako over Corbs . We have literally been begging for Corbs to come back from injury and when he's back we drop him . WTF !!!!

 

[SharksFan86]

Another day closer to Friday night, bring on the Welsh. It will be a great way to open six nations and be a close game no doubt ! Wales no doubt favourites but with depth we have on bench I believe we can get the win (ever the optimist).

Also great to see Sale's Cipriani back in fold !

 

[SWAGGER]

The reason behind croft and Easter is down to experience. A British lion (twice) and player who has loads of caps for England & big game experience with quins. I expect both players to be in the bench. I feel one of the main factors we lost In wales last time was our limited int experience within the squad and due to injuries. I think Lancaster did the right thing picking these players on bench over Kitchener who I rated highly & Ewers/Clark etc because you wouldn't want to bring these players on with 20mins to go with atmosphere which will be generate at the stadium. Most of them would be winning there first cap and the pressure will get to them