[2015 Six Nations] Wales vs England (Round 1)

[j'nuh]

Why no backthree on the bench? (No Cipriani is not fullback cover).
Watson and May covering 15 from the pitch and Burrell and Joseph (neither of whom have played wing in the last two years) covering wing.
Insanity.

When you have a benching 10 that doesn't really have a secondary position, you're always going to have a problem when trying to cover 5 positions with one player on the bench.

Watson covers fullback and Burrell covers 13. So the question then is whether you cover 12 or wing. For me, Joseph covers wing better than he covers 12, and I'd rather have 12 covered anyway.

It's not ideal, but the good news is that Lancaster will be trying to keep May-Watson-Brown on for a full 80. I can see them lining up with each other all the way through to the WC now, so it's handy for them to be getting a lot of game time together.

Looking at that line up, I'm way more concerned about 1-9 than 10-15.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Nowell covers 11/13/14/15 though. Much better than Twelvetrees covering 10/12.
I know it's hard covering 5 backs positions between two players, but we're only covering 2 positions between two players. Then you factor in Nowell's form vs Twelvetrees' and it's really a no brainer. Or at least should be.

I don't understand where Cipriani being viable cover at 15 comes from either, he only ever played there at the start of his career when he was learning his trade, which isn't unusual for a 10. He's not played there even for a minute at Sale. When at Rebels it was JOC or Beale who would be at 15 whenever they were in the same side. So we're looking at 5+ years since he's played there.

Just trying to make some changes to my fantasy team ahead of the opening weekend. Who's doing the goal kicking for Wales? Is it gonna be Halfpenny or Biggar?

Halfpenny

 

[goodNumber10]

I don't understand where Cipriani being viable cover at 15 comes from either, he only ever played there at the start of his career when he was learning his trade, which isn't unusual for a 10. He's not played there even for a minute at Sale. When at Rebels it was JOC or Beale who would be at 15 whenever they were in the same side. So we're looking at 5+ years since he's played there.

The general perception is that most 10's can cover 15 in a push, they read and understand the game and generally have a decent boot, they also understand the defensive positioning as well so it's not that unusual.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The general perception is that most 10's can cover 15 in a push, they read and understand the game and generally have a decent boot, they also understand the defensive positioning as well so it's not that unusual.

Fair enough. Makes sense, I guess - and I suppose he'd be, at most, 3rd choice 15 in that 23.

 

[j'nuh]

http://www.walesoncraic.com/wru-hir...-bunker-walls-richard-hibbard-smash-training/

:lol:

Nowell covers 11/13/14/15 though. Much better than Twelvetrees covering 10/12.
I know it's hard covering 5 backs positions between two players, but we're only covering 2 positions between two players. Then you factor in Nowell's form vs Twelvetrees' and it's really a no brainer. Or at least should be.

But 13 and 15 are already covered from the field, so there's not much of an issue there. The question is whether you want 11/14 covered or 12 covered. I trust Joseph as an 11/14 more than I trust him as a 12. I also think Joseph-Nowell is a disaster waiting to happen defensively. So I would prefer 12 covered, personally. (Aside from the fact that it is Twelvetrees the one to be covering.)

But I see what you mean about form. If Eastmond, Barritt or Tuilagi were available, the decision would be a lot easier. I wouldn't be upset for Twelvetrees to be an unused sub.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Some of the other stories on that site are hilarious

 

[Jockstap]

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9698914,00.html

England have named an in-form Jonathan Joseph at outside centre for their Six Nations opener against Wales at the Millennium Stadium on Friday.

The Bath star will start alongside Luther Burrell in midfield, with Billy Twelvetrees providing cover off the replacements bench in Cardiff.

Joseph will be joined on the pine by Nick Easter and Danny Cipriani while Tom Croft also earns a place amongst the matchday 23 for the fixture.

Chris Robshaw continues as captain in a back-row trio that includes Billy Vunipola and James Haskell, who comes in for the injured Tom Wood.

George Kruis and Dave Attwood form the lock combination while prop Dan Cole is fit enough to start alongside Dylan Hartley and Joe Marler.

"We've had to make some tight calls but we are excited about the side selected for what will be a big challenge," said head coach Stuart Lancaster.

"JJ has been one of the form centres in the country. He and Luther have trained well together and this is a big opportunity for both of them.

"Billy Vunipola has also been playing well for Saracens and it's good to be able to give George Kruis his first international start after his impressive run off the bench in November.

"Dan Cole and James Haskell bring a lot of experience, as do the bench, and their contribution will be crucial on Friday night."

England: 15 Mike Brown, 14 Anthony Watson, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Luther Burrell, 11 Jonny May, 10 George Ford, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Chris Robshaw (c), 6 James Haskell, 5 George Kruis, 4 Dave Attwood, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Joe Marler.
Replacements: 16 Tom Youngs, 17 Mako Vunipola, 18 Kieran Brookes, 19 Nick Easter, 20 Tom Croft, 21 Richard Wigglesworth, 22 Danny Cipriani, 23 Billy Twelvetrees.

Date: Friday, February 6
Venue: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Kick-off: 20:05 GMT
Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
Assistant Referees: Romain Poite (FFR) Mathieu Raynal (FFR) Simon McDowell (IRFU)

That's an excellent looking backline, this should be an epic game.

 

[Every Time Ref]

http://www.walesoncraic.com/wru-hir...-bunker-walls-richard-hibbard-smash-training/

:lol:


But 13 and 15 are already covered from the field, so there's not much of an issue there. The question is whether you want 11/14 covered or 12 covered. I trust Joseph as an 11/14 more than I trust him as a 12. I also think Joseph-Nowell is a disaster waiting to happen defensively. So I would prefer 12 covered, personally. (Aside from the fact that it is Twelvetrees the one to be covering.)

But I see what you mean about form. If Eastmond, Barritt or Tuilagi were available, the decision would be a lot easier. I wouldn't be upset for Twelvetrees to be an unused sub.

Only if those players themselves are covered from the bench - if Brown goes down, Watson can cover him but Watson's cover is probably JJ who isn't a genuine winger. In fact, Cips is probably considered the fullback cover, but again he isn't a genuine fullback. So the cover plan for the entire back three is dependent on players entirely out of position. The trouble is, even if you consider 12T to be fly-half cover (which is debatable), the presence of Cipriani on the bench makes that irrelevent, and leaves him as covering one position, so out of the six backs starting the mach, only two are actually covered by a bench player, three if you include Cipriani as a fullback.

 

[goodNumber10]

Only if those players themselves are covered from the bench - if Brown goes down, Watson can cover him but Watson's cover is probably JJ who isn't a genuine winger. In fact, Cips is probably considered the fullback cover, but again he isn't a genuine fullback. So the cover plan for the entire back three is dependent on players entirely out of position. The trouble is, even if you consider 12T to be fly-half cover (which is debatable), the presence of Cipriani on the bench makes that irrelevent, and leaves him as covering one position, so out of the six backs starting the mach, only two are actually covered by a bench player, three if you include Cipriani as a fullback.

that's not that unusual is it?

Most teams will cover halfbacks and then where they are least able to cover by reshuffling on the pitch.

so 9 is taken care of, 10 is taken care of.

You cover all back three moves by simply moving JJ out and Burrell out one and dropping 36 into 12.

The question they will have asked themselves is "is a back three cover going to have more impact on the game than brinign in 36 and reshuffling".

I think they will be looking for some control from 36 tail end.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Control and 36 don't go in the same sentence these days, unless it also includes "lack of"

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I have broken down the match-ups here with a general analysis at the end. Should be a very close game.

http://fourballsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/wales-vs-england-preview.html

 

[goodNumber10]

Control and 36 don't go in the same sentence these days, unless it also includes "lack of"

I'm not sure i agree with that... he's certainly off form but he's not a stupid player. His execution isn't great but in a game management sense he isn't taking the wrong options as such and he does know how to run and close a game from 10/12 - his game falls apart more when it loosens up and he finds himself in a lot of space (see vs wasps and his shocking 2vs1).

Not sure i'm explaining that right, but if you use him in a basic manner: hit it up, kick to corners he's reasonably effective, and he has still got a brilliant pass on him.

Not saying that warrants him being there just that I think that's why they've gone for him.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm not sure i agree with that... he's certainly off form but he's not a stupid player. His execution isn't great but in a game management sense he isn't taking the wrong options as such and he does know how to run and close a game from 10/12 - his game falls apart more when it loosens up and he finds himself in a lot of space (see vs wasps and his shocking 2vs1).

Not sure i'm explaining that right, but if you use him in a basic manner: hit it up, kick to corners he's reasonably effective, and he has still got a brilliant pass on him.

Not saying that warrants him being there just that I think that's why they've gone for him.

So he knows what to do but fails to do it?

 

[TobesHodges]

Would have pick Nowell over Watson, Think all round he is a slightly better player :/

 

[ratsapprentice]

I also think Joseph-Nowell is a disaster waiting to happen defensively.

Eh?

Any particular reason... given that both are just about as astrong as any of their competitors defensively, if not, more so.

 

[goodNumber10]

So he knows what to do but fails to do it?

No.

His decision making in situations like the 2vs1 I mention isn't great - but that's pretty endemic of English rugby.

But he's pretty effective with a simple controlled style of rugby which is what they'll be going for trail end of tomorrow game.

 

[goodNumber10]

Eh?

Any particular reason... given that both are just about as astrong as any of their competitors defensively, if not, more so.

Yeah. Not sure I get that either.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I propose a drinking game rule for tomorrow: every time twelvetrees isn't sure whether to step, pass, show etc , but instead farts and falls over..
Two fingers.

You'll be drunk very soon indeed.

 

[goodNumber10]

I propose a drinking game rule for tomorrow: every time twelvetrees isn't sure whether to step, pass, show etc , but instead farts and falls over..
Two fingers.

You'll be drunk very soon indeed.

Bit pointless as the game is on Friday not Thursday.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Nah I think watching him train would be an even quicker way to get drunk!