[2015 Six Nations] Wales vs England (Round 1)

[ratsapprentice]

Ah, Gaskell. Shame he's so scrawny or he'd have been getting caps back along with Lawes. Given Lancaster's desire for athleticism and lineout jumpers ahead of grunt he's not a bad shout to achieve something in an even worse injury crisis, imo, weirdly enough.

The two go hand in hand.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Basically my point is, I feel like there's a bit of a double standard of saying "the ref initially missed it, try should stand" then saying the Welsh try shouldn't have stood because the ref missed infringements at the scrum.

Honestly, I'm not that bothered, not trying to call anyone out on it, just seems a bit daft is all.

I take your point, but if the regulations I linked to above are still valid and I'm interpreting them correctly, that's exactly what should have happened. At the time, I was happy with both decisions.

In a sense I'm glad that England's win ans George North's head stole all the headlines. Had the Welsh try received more attention, it could have been the last try straight from a scrum awarded in international rugby without a referral!

 

[TheSaffycen]

The two go hand in hand.

Brodie Rettalick

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Ah, Gaskell. Shame he's so scrawny or he'd have been getting caps back along with Lawes. Given Lancaster's desire for athleticism and lineout jumpers ahead of grunt he's not a bad shout to achieve something in an even worse injury crisis, imo, weirdly enough.

At 6 ft 6, 16 st 1 lb - Gaskell takes 'scrawny' to a whole new level!

 

[g6mcg]

Basically my point is, I feel like there's a bit of a double standard of saying "the ref initially missed it, try should stand" then saying the Welsh try shouldn't have stood because the ref missed infringements at the scrum.

Honestly, I'm not that bothered, not trying to call anyone out on it, just seems a bit daft is all.

Yeah, I think people claiming it should represent a 14 point difference are a bit nuts!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Are people claiming that, though? As far as I can see people are saying that if you're going to let the Wales try stand, the England try should also stand.

 

[ratsapprentice]

At 6 ft 6, 16 st 1 lb - Gaskell takes 'scrawny' to a whole new level!

He's the same weight as Tom Youngs.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

He's the same weight as Tom Youngs.

Who is built like a Barrell! I agree that Weight per se isn't the best indicator of power, as it has to take height into account. Considering his height (6ft 6) Gaskell should be considerably( 1.5 stone heavier) to be remotely comparable to other locks.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Exactly. I reckon Gaskell probably weights about the average for people who are 6ft 6.
My point was sort of that if someone like Attwood was the same weight as Gaskell then he'd probably be ****ing rapid.

Essentially, I'm being somewhat pedantic and bitter about the use of the term "athleticism" to refer exclusively to speed/agility.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Yeah, I think people claiming it should represent a 14 point difference are a bit nuts!

I'm not. The two incidents were independent and have no bearing on each other. If I'm saying anything, it's that they should be assessed on their individual merits to decide if the right decision was made and what can be learned. I don't follow the logic that decisions like those in question can be polarised by previous events or that a call should go one way or another to compensate for previous errors.

 

[g6mcg]

Are people claiming that, though? As far as I can see people are saying that if you're going to let the Wales try stand, the England try should also stand.

I've heard people say it in the pub

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Slater would have been so suited to this 6 nations, would've been his big chance.

Mind you still bemused that Kitchener wasn't picked. (Who BTW is 6ft 6 and 19 stone and athletic)

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Exactly. I reckon Gaskell probably weights about the average for people who are 6ft 6.
My point was sort of that if someone like Attwood was the same weight as Gaskell then he'd probably be ****ing rapid.

Essentially, I'm being somewhat pedantic and bitter about the use of the term "athleticism" to refer exclusively to speed/agility.

Yeah, it's become somewhat of a catch-all term for describing players who are not sluggish.
Well, its become more of a binary between Powerful / Athletic. Which, whilst misleading and oversimplifying, very roughly corresponds to the tighthead / loosehead lock distinction commonly used.

 

[Peat]

Valid point. Suppose I could use mobility instead.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've heard people say it in the pub

I think it's more the point that there is some disagreement about whether the Attwood try should or should not have been given whilst there is no 2 ways about the Welsh try, completely illegal.

 

[dullonien]

At 6 ft 6, 16 st 1 lb - Gaskell takes 'scrawny' to a whole new level!

I recall Charteris being described as too scrawny early in his career, and i think he was always in excess of 18st. I remember being very surprised to find out he was over 19st when he started playing for wales.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think it's more the point that there is some disagreement about whether the Attwood try should or should not have been given whilst there is no 2 ways about the Welsh try, completely illegal.

In at least two ways

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I recall Charteris being described as too scrawny early in his career, and i think he was always in excess of 18st. I remember being very surprised to find out he was over 19st when he started playing for wales.

And on the field I think he makes that known. He made a very positive difference to the contact area when he came on last Friday. Manhandled Easter a few times.

Watched the game back and am surprised Kruis wasn't man of the match, simply put.

 

[Peat]

Man of the Match isn't recognition of performance, it's recognition of visibility and narrative, sadly.

I re-watched the first half to try and do some Ruck Marks. Not utterly happy with my scores (it seems that I've been far too stingy with them) but I did at least spend a lot of times looking at rucks and draw a few points from it.

Hartley's been slagged off with good reason but he was arguably our most effective rucker in the first half. Only Robshaw had as many effective hits as him (on my count) and Hartley was present at more rucks overall. So credit where credit's due.

Vunipola and Haskell got the two lowest scores in the forwards and I'm connecting that a little with the fear I felt of getting turned over I felt. Haskell in particular almost might as well have not bothered. When Vunipola does hit a ruck, that ruck knows about it but after an energetic twenty minutes he stopped really getting near them. That or he's been told to make sure he supports Mike Brown running it back but not to worry too much about other phase ball.

Attwood is another one who seems to tire as the half goes on. Some really meaty hits to begin with. Marler by contrast seemed to only show up 20 minutes in. Possibly a reflection of where the ball was. Kruis got a good score, largely because he was full of beans and kept trying to get in over the ball, but tbh, I don't really rate his technique. A lot of times, he just doesn't seem to make that much impression. It's him and Joseph who fail to stop Burrell getting turned over, it's him who can't blast Lydiate off the ball to stop Hartley getting done (in fairness, Youngs is in his way and he has about 0.2 of a second to make a difference). He seems to be hinging and wrestling more than he is blasting, although I'd want to watch it a bit more tbh.

Robshaw is a hero. The best thing about him is if he's at a ruck, in all likelihood he's blasting someone off it. There were a lot of times when other forwards were simply loitering at the back of a ruck doing SFA. Not Robshaw. 8 hits, 4 presents.

In the backs, Burrell's the most effective rucker. Joseph makes a really good intervention to stop Watson getting turned over from that Halfpenny kick through. Speaking of Watson, he's very uninvolved. He's only involved in two rucks. May, by contrast, is in six. That partially reflects the ball going to the left wing more, and May tracking Ford more. Speaking of tracking Ford, and moving away from rucks, his inside runners don't keep their depth very well. Often you'd see them already passing Ford as he'd shaping to pass to the outside runners. Don't think that does anyone any good.

Pinch of salt - this is my first time doing such an exercise and I'm not overly happy with my application of the methodology. I could have missed or misrepresented things.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Pinch of salt - this is my first time doing such an exercise and I'm not overly happy with my application of the methodology. I could have missed or misrepresented things.

I guess you could try doing one of the Lions tests and comparing your results with the Mole's.