[2015 Six Nations] England

[ratsapprentice]

Considering how effective both England and Ireland found booting the ball against Wales last year, I would be very surprised if we didn't punt it any time we are in our own half.

If we can kick well and get even moderate momentum from our forwards, I think we should go pretty well, regardless of who our centres are.

I do worry that this tournament is set up very nicely for Samson Lee to stake his claim as the long term successor to AJ.
If he's (genuinely) fit then I'll be very interested in the scrum.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I hope that, if Haskell is the chosen one at 6, Lancs and Wig allow him to play like he does at Wasps. He's so...ferocious, for them, and really what England are missing on the carry and at the ruck, but in an England shirt....he's not really shown it.
Though maybe that's a little unfair as his last cap he was just coming back from a nasty infection/hospital trip/was a stone or so lighter than his usual playing weight.
England do have a habit of trying to shoehorn players into their style, rather than allowing them to play naturally.

 

[j'nuh]

This I believe to be true; No bosh power = no unlocking. If you can't stretch them or put them on the back foot, the Welsh will be up in our boys' faces like a cat on your girlfriend's Christmas present and all the jinky guys will have no space and no chance.

And, while I'm not saying the bosh has to come from the backs, on recent evidence its not really coming from the forwards either.

I'll go one further: you need boshers in the pack, but not in the backline.

You don't stretch defences with guys like Tuilagi, especially not at 13. Tuilagi is there to burst through tackles, not to build tempo. Else he would play 12, closer to the contact zone. There are obvious issues with using a 13 to build tempo. The 9 has a fair amount of distance to travel to get to the next breakdown, the players clearing out are mostly backs, it creates an extremely awkward attacking pattern on the next phase and the time taken by all this means that the defence can reset. To build tempo you need to recycle as quickly as possible with everyone in position to go again. Which generally means forwards making quick carries past the gain line, although I suspect you can get away with the 12 doing this on the edge of the contact zone, with the 10 wrapping around for the next phase.

 

[goodNumber10]

I'll go one further: you need boshers in the pack, but not in the backline.

You don't stretch defences with guys like Tuilagi, especially not at 13. Tuilagi is there to burst through tackles, not to build tempo. Else he would play 12, closer to the contact zone. There are obvious issues with using a 13 to build tempo. The 9 has a fair amount of distance to travel to get to the next breakdown, the players clearing out are mostly backs, it creates an extremely awkward attacking pattern on the next phase and the time taken by all this means that the defence can reset. To build tempo you need to recycle as quickly as possible with everyone in position to go again. Which generally means forwards making quick carries past the gain line, although I suspect you can get away with the 12 doing this on the edge of the contact zone, with the 10 wrapping around for the next phase.

I agree in principle about Tuilagi being a line breaker, but I'm not sure there is a significant difference between having a gain line player in the 12 and 13 channel.

To build genuine tempo you really need to hit up outside the 10. It will provide quicker ball than a close hit/pick and go/ forward pod which is what England use too often - outside hits/stretching that contact zone give a far more dynamic flow to the pattern and the defensive pack has far further to travel than the attacking forwards who would come around the corner and onto the ball and the defence is always thinner or chasing on the flow.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If our current forwards just learned to take the ball at pace we wouldn't have a worry at all.

We would have quick ball and break the gain line. All the players do it for their clubs but not in an england shirt.

 

[Patchey]

Sam Burgess Saxons interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS9PnV1h7QY

What a man.

 

[j'nuh]

I agree in principle about Tuilagi being a line breaker, but I'm not sure there is a significant difference between having a gain line player in the 12 and 13 channel.

To build genuine tempo you really need to hit up outside the 10. It will provide quicker ball than a close hit/pick and go/ forward pod which is what England use too often - outside hits/stretching that contact zone give a far more dynamic flow to the pattern and the defensive pack has far further to travel than the attacking forwards who would come around the corner and onto the ball and the defence is always thinner or chasing on the flow.

12s can take the ball much flatter, mostly directly from the 9. The 10 can then wrap around and reform the back line, done fast enough and you can tie defenders up that way. On the other hand, a 13 takes more time to receive the ball and really needs to be attacking the outside channels. A 13 being tackled splits your back line so the next phase is inevitably forwards trucking and the back line reforming.

 

[goodNumber10]

12s can take the ball much flatter, mostly directly from the 9.

yes, but he'll be running into more traffic - so he's likely to get to the gain but not really break it wheras a well timed hard running 13 should cross the gain line and set a better contact point. There are less tacklers, and more supporters so the recycle should be a lot quicker.

The 10 can then wrap around and reform the back line, done fast enough and you can tie defenders up that way. On the other hand, a 13 takes more time to receive the ball and really needs to be attacking the outside channels. A 13 being tackled splits your back line so the next phase is inevitably forwards trucking and the back line reforming.

You just have to accept that if you're running a midfield hit point you're likely to lose a back/end up with a split back line. But there is nothing to stop your 15 stepping in and your blindside winger sweeping around to make the additional strike runner.

So (running right to left) you run 13 hits inside oppo 13 outside 12, 12 Clears: 10 reloads with 15 and 14, 9 feeds pod aroudn the corner, or 10 pops inside to pod around corner, or plays the outside ball to his 15/14/11. Centres get up and reload back the other way whilst forwards play closer passing pods (NZ style) to keep the defence in transition and sucking in, move wide.

that way you both stretch their defence and send them backwards.

to be fair there are tons of different ways to run these kind of patterns, and there is really no right or wrong answer - but i think the crux of it is we need to be getting over that gain line if we want to play wider attacking rugby,

 

[Patchey]

I sometime doubt we have the basic handling skills to play the wide game consistently.

 

[Peat]

What GN10 said - with the further point that sometimes the guy with the step and the break out wide is a forward; sometimes the guy running the hard line around the fringes is the wing or outside centre on an inside ball/hard line against the grain.

I wouldn't want to get too caught up on terms on this personally. Good ball usually comes from someone grabbing an extra metre or three against a set defence, and that is far more likely to come with a lot of physical force and cunning than with cunning alone. Where that small surge comes from is irrelevant to me, providing it is followed up by supporting players (positions irrelevant). I don't think we'll ever see a pack where that sort of physical force is irrelevant in the backline.

 

[goodNumber10]

^this X 1000

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31002380

Oh my lord Farrell ruled out of whole tournament!

God, the stars really are aligning for Cipriani....unless Lancaster is an even bigger tool than we suspect and plans to play Goode at 10?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Burns been called up.............................................................................................................................................................

 

[Tony Manx]

Burns been called up...................................................................................................................................................

Seriously............surely there is a better centre around than him?!!!

 

[yaboyjj]

Barritt ruled out of the Wales game too, a call up for Slade is not too far fetched as he can cover both fly half and centres.

So we have 36 and Joseph as the only fit centres in the squad with Eastmond and Burrell uncertainties. This really is throwing Lankies best laid plans up into the air, both 36 and Burrell are hopelessly out of form and Joseph is about the only fit centre in the squad showing any semblance of form. What are the bets for a Burgess/Joseph or Slade/Joseph pairing in Cardiff? Still pretty long I suspect- but seems to be getting shorter as every day passes.
Much as I hate to see injuries, it is making things rather exciting!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

It's getting pretty sketchy, that's for sure.

Ollie Devoto
Henry Slade
Sam Burgess
Elliot Daly

Dem the options. Of which, Burgess is only there to be in and around the squad, and Daly has been meh.

Devoto or Slade?

 

[yaboyjj]

It's getting pretty sketchy, that's for sure.

Ollie Devoto
Henry Slade
Sam Burgess
Elliot Daly

Dem the options. Of which, Burgess is only there to be in and around the squad, and Daly has been meh.

Devoto or Slade?

Slade for me- I still think that Lowe or Hill would be better options right now than Daly/Devoto in the Saxons (much as I like these players).
Some murmers that Barritt is actually out for the whole six nations.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rug...es-and-could-miss-entire-series-10005268.html
That potentially opens up the 12 starting spot and the 22 shirt on the bench.

 

[Willodell100]

I sometime doubt we have the basic handling skills to play the wide game consistently.

I understand the doubt as it wasn't clearly there at times during the autumn but two reasons to be optimistic:

1) George Ford's hands and distribution skills are consistently excellent and particularly more accurate and reliable than Owen Farrell

2) If Kyle Eastmond and Johnathon Joseph team up they have proven handling skills that have been consistently excellent this season and particularly more accurate and reliable than Billy Twelvetrees who has been very inconsistent this season. And Brad Barritt who has an excellent defence but he doesn't have very good hands in or out of tackles and his longer range passing off both hand is poor highlighted again vs Clermont.

Therefore our back three should be getting cleaner faster and more reliable ball to work off to take advantage of the quality of ball our forwards will provide them.

 

[psychic duck]

I do worry that this tournament is set up very nicely for Samson Lee to stake his claim as the long term successor to AJ.
If he's (genuinely) fit then I'll be very interested in the scrum.

The Welsh scrum is likely to be as poor as it has been for quite some time this tournament. Lee doesn't need to stake his claim either, there's absolutely no genuine competition for him.

 

[Tony Manx]

This looks to me like it is going to have to be a defensively 9 man game coming up from England with the ball not going out to,and certainly not passed, the 10.................in that case, might as well pick Myler at 10 for his kicking and the best defending players possible in the rest of the backs!!