[2015 Six Nations] England

[Every Time Ref]

On the walking out comment i just mean that rather than get in the defensive line he just walks along behind and goes to a wide position - he's out of the game whilst eh dos that, and he's not doing it in a way where he can cover tackle if a line is broken.

OK yeah, I think that's what I meant earlier when I said he was sometimes slow to get back into position on second phase, I agree on that.

Also agree on the passive tackling, it's not ideal but I just feel that is secondary to the fact that he is in position to make those tackles and then he is making them. Everyone can't do everything, and if you were to pick Eastmond over other players, one of the things you might sacrifice for his potential in attack are big, momentum-changing tackles in defence.

I think Tuilagi and Eastmond could be really good together, I love a midfield with two completely different threats in it because it is the hardest to defend. I can see the concern that neither of them is a defensive leader, and I can see there were big problems defensively the only other time they've played together. However, Eastmond's defence has been better since then and I think they deserve a go. Of course the fact that we're five games away from naming the World Cup squad and still talking about "giving them a go" together is a problem in itself, this should be further on the way to being resolved by now, but nonetheless ...

 

[RedruthRFC]

Any Exeter supporters here (or anyone who follows them more closely than me)?

I'm interested to see LCD's name thrown in to the mix occasionally. A couple of points - if you want a 2 with dodgy arrows who carries, why not go for Dave Ward? Also, how long is Jack Yeandle out for and am I right in thinking that he was starting ahead of LCD on merit at the start of the season?

Also, is Dave Ewers carrying an injury? I watches the match at Sandy Park against Wasps a few weeks ago and he didn't look to be moving easily or covering much ground.

 

[j'nuh]

Aaaaaaand... Launchbury it out of the 6N.

 

[chippieolamus]

Aaaaaaand... Launchbury it out of the 6N.

It's a blow, but its not the end of the world, Attwood and Lawes are easily good enough to fill those 2 spots.

 

[Peat]

Any Exeter supporters here (or anyone who follows them more closely than me)?

I'm interested to see LCD's name thrown in to the mix occasionally. A couple of points - if you want a 2 with dodgy arrows who carries, why not go for Dave Ward? Also, how long is Jack Yeandle out for and am I right in thinking that he was starting ahead of LCD on merit at the start of the season?

Also, is Dave Ewers carrying an injury? I watches the match at Sandy Park against Wasps a few weeks ago and he didn't look to be moving easily or covering much ground.

I think much of the talk about Television stems from Lancaster namechecking him as a potential bolter. Personally, I don't particularly want a 2 with dodgy arrows unless he carries, jackals and gives me a blowjob after the game, and hope that LCD's namechecking is "He's in the moment he can throw", but am willing to take gambles on 2s with slightly shaky arrows if they offer more than Hartley in the loose. But yes, there's an argument that Ward would currently be a better shout than Television, but you just know that Lancaster will prefer the player with the longer future and higher ceiling.

And yes, I thought Yeandle was ahead of LCD on merit...

 

[RedruthRFC]

Interesting point about the name check, he was also singled out by Fitzy back in the U20 RWC if the lazy pundits' memories go back that far. Funnily enough I read a Austin Healey article suggesting him as one of five players who could make a difference for England at the forthcoming RWC! I wouldn't be at all surprised to see LCD (it's all about LED in the TV world these days! ) in an England shirt one day, but given his fairly recent conversion to hooker and youth, it might be a while yet, particularly given those ahead of him in the pecking order.

 

[Peat]

Interesting point about the name check, he was also singled out by Fitzy back in the U20 RWC if the lazy pundits' memories go back that far. Funnily enough I read a Austin Healey article suggesting him as one of five players who could make a difference for England at the forthcoming RWC! I wouldn't be at all surprised to see LCD (it's all about LED in the TV world these days! ) in an England shirt one day, but given his fairly recent conversion to hooker and youth, it might be a while yet, particularly given those ahead of him in the pecking order.

Glad to see someone got it :lol:

Yeah, he's been anointed by a lot of people, and there's no doubting there's good reason as he has an incredible talent, but I'm half with you - changing positions (and learning how to throw) will probably hold him back for a while longer yet.

I don't think much of our current stock at hooker though. If he could throw as well as Hartley, he would walk into the team.

 

[Crapspray]

It's a blow, but its not the end of the world, Attwood and Lawes are easily good enough to fill those 2 spots.

To an extent. Attwood has improved the set piece/maul no end, but the breakdown was risible this autumn. I think South Africa managed nine turnovers (it's not a coincidence that McCaw and Burger both won MotM). Since the first game is Cardiff, Warburton will be smelling blood. Not to mention what Ireland might do in Dublin.

How England solve this I'm not sure; Cole may start*, but that's still a bodge. Short of an actual fetcher being picked, it seems the backline will have to make do with atrocious ball for another five games. Hamstringing an already shoddy unit.



*Given Wilson's good autumn, I could only see this happening to try and solve the breakdown. Otherwise I'd probably bring Cole in camp and rest him as much as possible before Leicester run him into the ground again.

 

[j'nuh]

To an extent. Attwood has improved the set piece/maul no end, but the breakdown was risible this autumn. I think South Africa managed nine turnovers (it's not a coincidence that McCaw and Burger both won MotM). Since the first game is Cardiff, Warburton will be smelling blood. Not to mention what Ireland might do in Dublin.

How England solve this I'm not sure; Cole may start*, but that's still a bodge. Short of an actual fetcher being picked, it seems the backline will have to make do with atrocious ball for another five games. Hamstringing an already shoddy unit.

I'm not too sure about this actually.

I think that there are two separate issues here: protecting own ball and stealing opposition ball.

Fetchers (including Launchbury and Cole) give you the latter. With turnover ball, the backs do get access to great attacking options, and we are missing that.

But the general failing of protecting our own ball won't be particularly improved by Cole/Launchbury/a fetcher. That's a general failing of the team. It shouldn't be happening either, as we have a pack that prides itself on athleticism. They have the speed and power to remove players from the breakdown, and it just isn't happening.

I do get a sense of what is happening though. I think that our team is being coached to push up the field through a kicking game. Our set-up is based around a couple of phases of carries and then a kick and chase. We actually do this very well, as we have an extremely athletic team. But there's only so far up the field that this works. When you get to around 25-30 meters from the opposition try line, there isn't a great deal of tactical kicking that would improve your position, and you need to start breaking down the defence. The players don't appear to be coached to keep the ball beyond just a few phases. The tempo slows, we don't get across the gain line and we make it easy for ourselves to be turned over.

 

[Peat]

While agreeing with j'nuh's general point, Launchbury does a huge amount to secure our own ball as well. I would challenge Lawes to do something about that - he has the athleticism and power - but it does rather expose matters when you're talking about which lock's going to be the most pivotal player in the pack for securing your own ruck ball, and not which flanker...

 

[Big Ewis]

Launchbury and Corbisiero will be out for the WC and England fans will cling onto that dearly as excuse when they're ousted in the 1/2F. I'm not even spiteful as I say this, I just feel it's a likely scenario. Totally see it happening.
Deep within me I want England and every team for that matter to be 100% though.

Do you think England have some sort of surprise for us all, some sort of last resort in store for the WC ? S.Armitage signed a contract under the table with them but couldn't tell Mourad. Stephen Ferris wasn't "done" this whole time but rather working out his contract with the RFU and those damn citizenship papers and steps. They got the token MASS guy from League already, so that's done...and maybe, but this will be difficult, have it so they start implementing the new rule that you can fly temporarily during Union Test matches, England will be fully equipped and trained for it and the rest of the world caught by surprise will be too late to get ready in time and will have to be subjected to aerial waves of 110kg Anglo-Saxon pterodactyls...but to get World Rugby to accept those terms, on such short notice and all.... :/

 

[Maverick1987]

The main thing is that we want to be able to say eastmonds attacking threat outweighs his defensive frailties and I feel that's the way It is . I'd rather a double Barrell Eastmond than a poor in attack Barritt at inside centre in the 6N . Teams won't have a few games to work him out and he can win us games .

 

[Maverick1987]

Launchbury and Corbisiero will be out for the WC and England fans will cling onto that dearly as excuse when they're ousted in the 1/2F. I'm not even spiteful as I say this, I just feel it's a likely scenario. Totally see it happening.
Deep within me I want England and every team for that matter to be 100% though.

Do you think England have some sort of surprise for us all, some sort of last resort in store for the WC ? S.Armitage signed a contract under the table with them but couldn't tell Mourad. Stephen Ferris wasn't "done" this whole time but rather working out his contract with the RFU and those damn citizenship papers and steps. They got the token MASS guy from League already, so that's done...and maybe, but this will be difficult, have it so they start implementing the new rule that you can fly temporarily during Union Test matches, England will be fully equipped and trained for it and the rest of the world caught by surprise will be too late to get ready in time and will have to be subjected to aerial waves of 110kg Anglo-Saxon pterodactyls...but to get World Rugby to accept those terms, on such short notice and all.... :/

Lol mate this post is garbage . Both the players you have spoken about we have players easily able to step in and not distrupt the team at all . You clearly know nothing about english rigby and its best if you kept quiet about it ..... Most of us watch english rugby all the time and are better placed to speak about these things

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Lol mate this post is garbage . Both the players you have spoken about we have players easily able to step in and not distrupt the team at all . You clearly know nothing about english rigby and its best if you kept quiet about it ..... Most of us watch english rugby all the time and are better placed to speak about these things

I dunno, Corbs on form is noticeably better than his alternative and Launchbury and Cole are suprisingly our best at getting turnover ball. Since they have both been out of the team, England have really struggled to get turnovers. With them both on form, that could go a long way to solving that problem. Whilst Lancaster refuses to select someone at 7 who can get turnovers regularly, we need Launchbury and Cole to fill that role.

 

[Maverick1987]

I dunno, Corbs on form is noticeably better than his alternative and Launchbury and Cole are suprisingly our best at getting turnover ball. Since they have both been out of the team, England have really struggled to get turnovers. With them both on form, that could go a long way to solving that problem. Whilst Lancaster refuses to select someone at 7 who can get turnovers regularly, we need Launchbury and Cole to fill that role.

I don't think we have gone backwards since Corbs has been injured . Cole will be back by then Attwood did a great job in the autumn internationals

 

[Crapspray]

I'm not too sure about this actually.

I think that there are two separate issues here: protecting own ball and stealing opposition ball.

Fetchers (including Launchbury and Cole) give you the latter. With turnover ball, the backs do get access to great attacking options, and we are missing that.

Forgive me, I was busy yesterday, so lazily wrote 'fetcher' as shorthand for a player good at the breakdown – both at securing and stealing ball. As Peat later said, Launchbury also does a huge amount of work securing ball (the clear-out after Wilson's break against Wales still sticks in the mind). Cole hits a lot of rucks for a front row forward too. Wilson and Attwood are stronger tacklers and carriers, but I feel they'll always be two seconds later to a ruck - giving the opposition the time they need.

But the general failing of protecting our own ball won't be particularly improved by Cole/Launchbury/a fetcher. That's a general failing of the team.

I sort of agree. I don't think one selection change will cause a revolution, but it may well achieve a better balance to the pack. Putting Clark in for Morgan and moving Wood to 8 might just be one change, but it would have ruinous effects for the way the team plays. And vice-versa.

Of course the backs being able to make more ground, with Tuilagi or Burrell at 13, along with better presentation, would help. But as you later say, the squad just isn't coached for it. What really worries me is that Lancaster et al. have decided to artificially limit the players to kick and chase (SN 2013 here we come!), rather than pick the players who might let them have a more rounded game; in this case a breakdown specialist.

 

[chippieolamus]

'after Wilson's break'
Now there's something you don't hear every day...

 

[ratsapprentice]

You hear it much more often than you do for other TH's.

 

[Big Ewis]

Lol mate this post is garbage . Both the players you have spoken about we have players easily able to step in and not distrupt the team at all . You clearly know nothing about english rigby and its best if you kept quiet about it ..... Most of us watch english rugby all the time and are better placed to speak about these things

...wh....why ?..:lol:

 

[Every Time Ref]

You hear it much more often than you do for other TH's.

For Bath, yeah, not so sure I would associate his England career with making a lot of breaks, would you? Possibly a question of England's different game plan, although I'm inclined to think it might be more a question of the extra pace of international being a bit much for him in the loose.