[2015 Six Nations] England

[TRF_Olyy]

Cipriani is not a liability from the tee - ever since sky sports said it last week people have been screaming it from the roof tops for some reason.

 

[j'nuh]

Cipriani is not a liability from the tee - ever since sky sports said it last week people have been screaming it from the roof tops for some reason.

Sale as a whole have converted 32/48 (~67%) in the Premiership. Don't know the breakdown by player, but Cips has been on the field and has had the kicking duties for the vast majority of that time.

Unless he's constantly being guided to go for ones outside his range, that's probably not good enough for an international.

That said, if it is true that Slade is somewhere in the 80s, I'd be over the moon with a potential Cips-Tuilagi-Slade combination.

 

[Tony Manx]

Cipriani is not a liability from the tee - ever since sky sports said it last week people have been screaming it from the roof tops for some reason.

I am afraid that there are far too many people who still take what is said by the idiots on TV or written in the newspapers as gospel because they are said with either total conviction or by so called experts when basically they are talking out of their posteriors!

 

[chippieolamus]

Cipriani is not a liability from the tee - ever since sky sports said it last week people have been screaming it from the roof tops for some reason.

Yeah, I've always been under the impression that he was an ok kicker - not good, not bad.

 

[TheSaffycen]

To me as long as long as your kicker can get all the 7/10 kicks (pretty much around 40-45m out and 10-15m either side of the post). If they can get them then I wouldn't be too concerned if they can get them most of the time, you can't always have a Halfpenny. And for what they say Farrell isn't that good of a kicker.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think I would rather see Watson competing for 15 than 14. I think Roko will return to form soon enough and he is the best at 14 for us by some distance I think.

 

[Patchey]

I forgot about Cook. Yes, him.

I think Care dipped in the AIs, but I thought he did well for Quins when he came back? Or am I thinking wrong? (My memory isn't the best!) It's not that rare for Care to go wrong briefly and get back to playing well soon after. Overall, I still prefer Care to the other options, although it isn't exactly an embarrassment of riches. I did forget about Cook and yeah, I would have him. I'm just not sure who to replace. I'd probably say Youngs because his pass infuriates me but on the other hand, he's probably got the best box kick at this stage. It's infuriating that for all their potential, our scrum-half options never really seem to achieve much of it.


Robson isn't happening any time soon. He confirmed he was leaving Gloucester, and then Gloucester confirmed that because of this, they will seek to develop Braley rather than Robson from the bench.

Robson has gone backwards this season and without game time, will probably stall or continue to go backwards until he picks up at his new club next season.

I'd probably scratch any thought of him appearing for England in the next year or so.

Yeah, Care has been in form for Quins. IMO his dip during the IAs was as much to do with the game plan and the horrendous, stationary nature of our forwards as it was to do with him. Yet, as we have seen before, nine is a position where the coaches seem most trigger happy. A years worth of good form couldn't buy him more than a couple of sub par games before Youngs came galavanting in with his comedy pass...

That makes me sound overly bitter. Care wasn't at his best, but it rankles a little how easily he was dropped.

If we're looking for a nine who isn't Care or Youngs to come in an challenge, I'd say Wigglesworth or Cook, depending on if we keep the same game plan as during the IAs. I am a little baffled as to where all the guys who have been playing nine for the U21 side have gone, we seem to have young talent from those JWC winning teams all over the Premiership in every position except nine?

 

[Peat]

What the hell is up with people saying they'd pick a bunch of opensides at 6? Seymour, Fraser, Wallace... what?

Care will always have flaws but you won't notice them at his best i.e. with quick ball, confidence invested in him and freedom to run. Ben Youngs is almost identical except you will still notice the odd attempt to put his runners into hospital. I have no problem with either should this happen, and if I'm honest, I don't really have any confidence in the proposed replacements. Maybe Cook will keep up this rise but if I'm honest I think he looks like he's just a useful cog in a very strong machine. Ask him to take on more responsibility with England and I'm not expecting a good answer. If England had a very strong machine, maybe I'd be up for Cook, but we're not and I want a scrum-half who adds something.

The winning u20 sides aren't really on the radar, as they're all 20/21. Only Slade from those teams and maaaybe LCD look like cracking England this year. Lets think where the talent is... Braley and Robson both at Glaws behind Laidlaw, Taylor and Spencer both at Sarries behind Wigglesworth and de Kock, Harrison is at Leicester behind Youngs and Mele, Day at Northampton behind Fortuiali and Dickson, Townsend at Exeter still has a year at U20, Davies is at Wasps behind Simpson... none of them have made the breakthrough, which is why I'm delighted that Robson is telling Glaws where to stick it. I wish Spencer and Harrison would follow suit.

I wonder if our scrum-halfs do enough work on their technical skills and do enough decision making in games when young.

 

[chippieolamus]

I'd actually be quite glad for Spencer if he moved on - he's a great player who deserves more game time

 

[j'nuh]

What the hell is up with people saying they'd pick a bunch of opensides at 6? Seymour, Fraser, Wallace... what?

My list was more to be read as:
6. Ewers, Croft (if Croft is fit)
7. Robshaw, Kvesic, Seymour (if Croft is not fit), Wallace (if Croft and Seymour are not fit)

If Ewers gets injured, then Robshaw would move to 6, Kvesic would start 7 and Seymour/Wallace to the bench.
If Ewers and Robshaw gets injured, then Launchbury to 6, Kvesic to 7 and Seymour/Wallace to the bench.

 

[Tmartin995]

Townsend at Exeter still has a year at U20

He actually has 2 years left, he was brought straight up from U18s last year and was brought to the JWC for the experience of being part of the squad I believe, which is particularly promising imo. He hasn't really had chance to break into the first team, aside from some LV games off the bench due to the fact that the three scrum halves above him (Lewis, Thomas and Chudley) are all pretty even in terms of the starting spot and are rotated a lot.

EDIT: just seen that he and Joel Conlon are currently dual-registered with the Cornish Pirates.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Cipriani is not a liability from the tee - ever since sky sports said it last week people have been screaming it from the roof tops for some reason.

According to this, he's kicking at under 65% this year:
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/KickingStrikeRate?comp_id=469

I know it's not all about stats, but I'd say that's low enough to be a serious concern. He's the lowest of the regular kickers except Socino, who I think lost the kicking duties after a shocking start, and Olly Barkley, who's kicking for London Welsh.

That said, if it is true that Slade is somewhere in the 80s, I'd be over the moon with a potential Cips-Tuilagi-Slade combination.

According to the same source he's actually 6 from 6 so far this season! Last season (probably a better sample size) he was 14 from 20, or 70% - not huge but if he's generally taking on the longer ones and Steenson's doing the main duties, which I think is the case, it's actually a very impressive stat. And 6 from 6 is phenomenal.

 

[goodNumber10]

Can't believe France has a thread before us. Step it up guys.

Not too much to talk about tbf though. Lancaster made it clear that he wanted most of his squad in place for the 2014 AIs. Other than one or two late bolters, we probably know the kind of squad that Lancaster will take to the WC.

Curious what everyone would have for their EPS though?

My squad would be something like:

1. Marler, Mullan, Corbs/Auterac (depending on Corbs fitness and form)
2. Hartley, Webber, Youngs/LCD (depending on Youngs' form)
3. Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4. Launchbury, Kruis
5. Attwood, Lawes
6. Ewers, Croft/Seymour/Wallace (depending on Croft's and then Seymour's fitness and form)
7. Robshaw, Kvesic
8. Morgan, Vunipola/Waldrom (depending on Vunipola's form)
9. Care, Youngs, Wiggles
10. Ford, Cips, Farrell
11. May
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi, Joseph, Slade
14. Rokoduguni, Nowell
15. Brown, Watson

Cirpriani will be nowhere near the squad though. Myler will be in there ahead of him, potentially Burns if he hits a bit of form. Cipriani was excellent last year but he's been very up and down this season (I'm pretty sure i've read more Cip's didnt' perform comments than he bossed the game comments - maybe he is disappointed with his England chances seeming tanking)

Squad i think we'll see:
1. Marler/Mullan/Corbs
2. Hartley/Webber/Youngs
3. Cole/Wilson/Brookes
4. Launchbury/Kruis
5. Attwood/Lawes
6. Wood/Haskell/Clarke
7. Robshaw/Haskell
8. Morgan/Vunipola/Waldrom
9. Care/Youngs/Wiggles
10. Farrell/ Ford/ Myler
11. May/ Yarde
12. Baritt/36
13. Tuilagi/Burrell
14. Watson/Nowell
15. Brown/Goode

Squad i'd pick?

Probably the same.

 

[chippieolamus]

Cirpriani will be nowhere near the squad though. Myler will be in there ahead of him, potentially Burns if he hits a bit of form. Cipriani was excellent last year but he's been very up and down this season (I'm pretty sure i've read more Cip's didnt' perform comments than he bossed the game comments - maybe he is disappointed with his England chances seeming tanking)

Squad i think we'll see:
1. Marler/Mullan/Corbs
2. Hartley/Webber/Youngs
3. Cole/Wilson/Brookes
4. Launchbury/Kruis
5. Attwood/Lawes
6. Wood/Haskell/Clarke
7. Robshaw/Haskell
8. Morgan/Vunipola/Waldrom
9. Care/Youngs/Wiggles
10. Farrell/ Ford/ Myler
11. May/ Yarde
12. Baritt/36
13. Tuilagi/Burrell
14. Watson/Nowell
15. Brown/Goode

Squad i'd pick?

Probably the same.

You'd pick Barritt over Eastmond and Slade, Clark over any number of flankers, and Yarde over Roko? Why?

 

[goodNumber10]

Eastmond - defence.
Clarke - actually no, i'd not take Clarke personally as he's scum so sub in Croft.
Yarde vs Roko - i think Yarde on form is a better player then Roko and has better potential.

 

[chippieolamus]

Eastmond - defence.
Clarke - actually no, i'd not take Clarke personally as he's scum so sub in Croft.
Yarde vs Roko - i think Yarde on form is a better player then Roko and has better potential.

I've never got why people worry about Eastmond's defence. He may be small, but from what I've seen he's actually a good tackler, especially for his size.
On Roko, yeah I agree, but its worrying how Yarde's form has suddenly dipped dramatically this season, I thought he was one of our best players in the New Zealand tests.

 

[Peat]

Issue one is the standard of his positioning in the third test in NZ. It's looked ok this autumn, but it's unsure to what extent that's down to Barritt telling him where to stand which leads me to to Issue two, which is that he doesn't seem the sort of guy who'll lead a defence and make sure it keeps it's shape, which is a major issue for England as neither is Tuilagi.

Issue three is his size means he is prone to completing the tackle behind the gainline, or completing the tackle but allowing the offload. Now, that can be masked with a lot of double tackling, and double tackling is the norm, but every now and again it shows up.

 

[Big Ewis]

Pretty sure Corbisiero hasn't played a single Euro Cup game this year, how's he doing ? He was back and then he's down again, when's he back, back for the 6N this year ??

And for Saints fans (best way to get to them on this England thread): how do you rate that Ma'afu tighthead ?

 

[chippieolamus]

Pretty sure Corbisiero hasn't played a single Euro Cup game this year, how's he doing ? He was back and then he's down again, when's he back, back for the 6N this year ??

He's just permanently injured it seems. Its frustrating, because he's one of the top loose heads in the world when fully fit.

 

[Big Ewis]

He's just permanently injured it seems. Its frustrating, because he's one of the top loose heads in the world when fully fit.

that, nobody doubts. Every time I've looked forward to finally seeing him in the scrum and the loose, he gets injured. England would really be a handful in the scrum with Corbisiero+Hartley+Wilson starting, and then you've got Marler+Tom Youngs+Cole coming off the bench for the last 20. Not to stereotype or wtvr, but England would need that strength up front as it's really their pack that's been a handful for their opponents. Seeing how they scored a penalty try against the All-Blacks second unit front row, if they had that extra world class hand up front...
He's right up there with Healy and Ayerza as the leading loosehead props in the world, that is the modern prop: a guy who can take it to the opposing tighthead often in the scrum and get flanker-like stats in the loose. He hasn't played all that much for England so hopefully maybe you know because he's a bit Italian so somehow sort of French yeah a little bit so maybe we can get him here and then play him as a basketball player for 3 weeks and then make him French and win the World Cup. And a few Six Nations also, as a scrumhalf (under PSA, you know). Just speculating out loud here, nothing serious. ..
So it's official: Alexandre Corbisière will make his début in February 2015 and will become one of the great French products of the last 10 years.