[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 4: Australia vs. Scotland (18/10/2015)

[Daib]

Some of the childish comments on here are pretty embarrassing to read. Grow up people.

Firstly, congratulations to Australia who played great rugby yesterday. They were the better side, but perhaps shouldnt have won, however that happens in rugby.

I think it's fair to say the penalty given at the end should probably have been a scrum as Phipps touched the ball prior to Welsh. But it is a bit ridiculous to accuse Joubert of deliberately cheating. It was a very close call, and if he was of the opinion he couldnt go to the TMO then his hands were tied after making the call.

It is not the way I would want to lose a match, would much rather the aussies had scored a try, as I'm sure it was not the way the aussies would have prefered the game to have been won.

Perhaps this raises the potential to adopt a tennis/cricket appeals approach where the coaches can raise one or two TMO appeals during a match to cover game changing moments like this that the ref ignores, misses, or gets wrong? This would probably be more preferable than the ref referring to the TMO more frequently for all decisions. Thoughts?

Brilliant post.

A great game to watch as a neutral, to end a wonderful weekend of rugby.

As for the refereeing decision, I thought he could have been penalised at the first time of watching. Every pundit is an expert with the benefit of multi angled replays. Perhaps it is about time all pundits refereed about a dozen games a year at the lower levels of rugby just to keep their sense of perspective. Calls for Joubert never to referee a game again are simply crass, modern media calls.

Joubert most probably ran down the tunnel out of disappointment at his performance which was wrong of him.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Some of the childish comments on here are pretty embarrassing to read. Grow up people.

Firstly, congratulations to Australia who played great rugby yesterday. They were the better side, but perhaps shouldnt have won, however that happens in rugby.

I think it's fair to say the penalty given at the end should probably have been a scrum as Phipps touched the ball prior to Welsh. But it is a bit ridiculous to accuse Joubert of deliberately cheating. It was a very close call, and if he was of the opinion he couldnt go to the TMO then his hands were tied after making the call.

It is not the way I would want to lose a match, would much rather the aussies had scored a try, as I'm sure it was not the way the aussies would have prefered the game to have been won.

Perhaps this raises the potential to adopt a tennis/cricket appeals approach where the coaches can raise one or two TMO appeals during a match to cover game changing moments like this that the ref ignores, misses, or gets wrong? This would probably be more preferable than the ref referring to the TMO more frequently for all decisions. Thoughts?

Excellent idea.

 

[RoosTah]

@craig79 does raise an excellent point there, and funnily enough such a system is being trialled by the NRL over here in our junior grades. It's very much based on the cricket approach, meaning your captain gets two challenges and if he stuffs them both up the referee is free to go with his on field decision from then on. The idea is to put the onus more on the players, having them own a larger part of the result and also helping improve the flow of the game by reducing the amount of times our officials feel pressured to go to the TMO.

I reckon it's a brilliant idea. By effectively making it the captains responsibility to challenge and have reasonable cause, even if the referee is wrong on a couple big calls, if the captain has blown his review quota on unambiguous decisions, then the blame goes much more on him and he'll have much less to complain about.

 

[craig79]

Brilliant post.

A great game to watch as a neutral, to end a wonderful weekend of rugby.

As for the refereeing decision, I thought he could have been penalised at the first time of watching. Every pundit is an expert with the benefit of multi angled replays. Perhaps it is about time all pundits refereed about a dozen games a year at the lower levels of rugby just to keep their sense of perspective. Calls for Joubert never to referee a game again are simply crass, modern media calls.

Joubert most probably ran down the tunnel out of disappointment at his performance which was wrong of him.

As much as I was gutted and angry with Joubert after the game yesterday, with a bit of time to calm down it is extreme to call for him to never referee at this level again. It was a tight call and he got it wrong, however due to the time and location on the pitch it ended up being the critical factor in deciding the game. It is moments like these that you hope world rugby look at and see what they can do to avoid putting the refs in such a tight spot and enable such critical decisions to be determined more accurately.

As for him running off the pitch, I didnt see it as I was practically catatonic and trying not too cry , I think he will be suitably embarrassed and I think the outcry at this action will ensure it does not happen again. I hope he has, or should, speak to the scottish players, shake their hands as is the norm after the game.

However this should not be a career ending moment for him or anyone else.

 

[celticc]

With respect to Scotland scoring lucky tries or benefitting from Australian mistakes. We have scored quite a few intercept tries not just in thiss tournament, but over the last couple of years. It's clearly something the team focus on and we've become quite good at. Looking forward to watching the rest of the tournament.

 

[TobesHodges]

Just watched the highlight and what a disgusting decision at the end, Strauss should have a appealed a bit more..
The commentator was saying that Joubert was watching the replays on the big screen as foley was preparing the penalty.. It was a clear knock back from Phipps or an accidental knock on from Strauss at most.
He should have had it reviewed plain and simple.
Scotland should feel very very hard done by.. I know these things happen in a split second and I hate beating on Refs, but we have the TMO for a reason, they've been using it for pretty much everything it seems this tournament, at least 1 of the four Officials should have flagged it for a review..

 

[TJAY]

I felt the deliberate knock on was the defining moment in the game, It looked like he got his right palm to the ball and was starting to bring his left hand up when the ball bounced out of his palm, of course it all happened very quickly, so when it went to TMO on the slow mo you could really see he was trying to catch the ball and not deliberately knock it on. I know he didn't go for it with two hands, but the rule is "deliberate ", and I don't see that as deliberate.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think we've established that he couldn't ask the TMO. Going against the rules and doing so would have been more outrageous than getting it wrong.

But did he consult his on field assistants?

 

[Ospreylian]

That's just the Scots in general.

You'll never find a bunch more adept at whining, complaining and gurning. Well... maybe the Welsh run them close.

From what I've seen during my time on the forum, most of the Welsh and Scottish posters are actually pretty gracious and accepting in defeat. The Joubert incident has left a bitter taste in the mouth for some fans and rightly so because it was a bad decision, and emotions are running high in a world cup. Also, keep your sweeping generalisations and blanket statements to yourself in future. I find it funny that your comment is in itself a whiny complaint about how the Scottish and Welsh whine and complain.

At least the English have their stiff upper lip to think of so usually slink off quietly into the night hoping no-one notices.

so nobody noticed this then?

 

[LiRFCMatt]

No, but that doesn't change the fact Laidlaw choked a bit there.

Also NZ wouldn't throw a lineout like that at 80mins...

No, only the English and the Scots could throw a lineout that bad at the end of the game to secure being knocked out of the World Cup

- - - Updated - - -

so nobody noticed this then?

I have found it odd that Laidlaw was praised for his post match interview when Brown was slated. Both gutted after losing a match, clearly upset and forced to be interviewed.

 

[scootz]

Yes, World Rugby have been reported as saying that the ref couldn't have referred it to the TMO, but I question whether they have interpreted their own rules correctly on this occasion (it happens).

The protocol...

(b) A match organiser may appoint an official known as a Television Match Official (TMO) who uses technological devices to clarify situations relating to:

1. Where there is doubt as to whether a ball has been grounded in in-goal for a score or a touchdown
2. Where there is doubt as to whether a kick at goal has been successful
3. Where there is doubt as to whether players were in touch or touch in goal before grounding the ball in in-goal or the ball has been made dead
   
4. Where match officials believe an infringement may have occurred leading to a try or in preventing a try providing that the potential infringement has occurred no more than two phases (rucks or mauls) after the potential infringement and before the ball has been grounded in in-goal
   
5. Where match officials believe foul play may have occurred
   
6. The clarification of sanctions required for acts of foul play.

I have worked with legislative documents for many years and the construction of this piece is quite clear. Rule 5 is a stand-alone essential of the protocol, and it clearly provides that match officials can use the TMO to review instances where they believe that foul play has occurred. A deliberate offside - as indicated by Joubert in awarding the penalty - is an act of 'foul play'. The legislation therefore provides that it can be reviewed.

Whether the foul occurred during the build up to a score is irrelevant here. Rule 4 provides for that, and Rule 5 stands alone.

In any case, this tournament has already seen the TMO being consulted, or interjecting, on instances of alleged foul play that have occurred during live-play that was entirely separate of any try-scoring scenarios.

TMO's aside, Joubert got the call wrong (as he also did for the late tackle on Hogg and the penalty against Maitland). It should have been a scrum for Australia. Still very dangerous from a Scots point of view, but not immediately fatally so.

But at the end of the day, that ridiculous line-out call has left me more disappointed that the Ref's mistake. Scotland were in control of their own destiny at that point!

 

[gamine]

I think you are mistaken, or a biased Aussie!

Disagree. Firstly, it was a penalty - it wasn't played at and so for the Scotish player to pick it up is an automatic offside. Therefore, it's a penalty.

Second, Joubert ran off because feral Scottish fans were throwing bottles at him, seemingly under the impression it was him that let Australia score 5 tries (which frankly should have been 6 - there was no knock on in that ruck).

I understand that the Australia player has said that he was playing the ball, which negates the offside decision.

As for five tries, one of those was questionable, as once a player is tackled he is supposed to let go of the ball, not pick it up and put it down on the line!

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I understand that the Australia player has said that he was playing the ball, which negates the offside decision.

As for five tries, one of those was questionable, as once a player is tackled he is supposed to let go of the ball, not pick it up and put it down on the line!

No, that was fine, if you're referring to Kuridrani's try. Not a double movement, you are allowed one placement of the ball, and his movement of the arms there was fine.

 

[valley commando]

Brilliant post.

A great game to watch as a neutral, to end a wonderful weekend of rugby.

As for the refereeing decision, I thought he could have been penalised at the first time of watching. Every pundit is an expert with the benefit of multi angled replays. Perhaps it is about time all pundits refereed about a dozen games a year at the lower levels of rugby just to keep their sense of perspective. Calls for Joubert never to referee a game again are simply crass, modern media calls.

Joubert most probably ran down the tunnel out of disappointment at his performance which was wrong of him.

Joubert ran down the tunnel because some mindless thug threw a bottle at him according to talk sport this morning.
Anyway good post, in the main I thought the refs this weekend had good games, especially Barnes who is my choice to ref the final.

 

[Sker]

Joubert ran down the tunnel because some mindless thug threw a bottle at him according to talk sport this morning.
Anyway good post, in the main I thought the refs this weekend had good games, especially Barnes who is my choice to ref the final.

As a few other posters have mentioned, this has not been confirmed and certainly doesn't warrant him running off immediately after he blew the final whistle.

I'm pretty sure there is a reasonable explanation, but we should all probably just wait.

Maybe Suzie was his waitress the night before and he had to run to the bathroom to explode out of both ends.

 

[TheOvalBall]

As a few other posters have mentioned, this has not been confirmed and certainly doesn't warrant him running off immediately after he blew the final whistle.

I'm pretty sure there is a reasonable explanation, but we should all probably just wait.

Maybe Suzie was his waitress the night before and he had to run to the bathroom to explode out of both ends.

According to twitter, a World Rugby rep said he needed a bathroom break.

 

[Sker]

He was probably thinking the whole time:

"Oh man I have to take a **** so badly, I can feel it creeping up the spine. Oh dear Lord let this game end." then he cramped up slightly and had tried to stop a shart and it came off as him giving a penalty so he just went with it so people wouldn't realise he was about to **** his pants.

And that kids, is how Scotland lost to Australia

 

[valley commando]

In the cold light of day I have re-analysed the OzV Scots 1/4. My 1st point is the Australians played this a lot looser than the group games, maybe their phsyci told them this would be easier than their group games so they played in a less structured way, this led them to score 5 tries to Scotlands 3 of which one was an interception try and another after a bad clearance kick was charged down, so although Scotland ran them close on the score board in real terms they were along way off and had Oz lost it would have been because they gifted it to Scotland, something they will learn from.
Rather than blame the ref as Scotlands fans are doing I would thank the Australians for allowing you to have hope almost till the end.

 

[BraidyBoy]

Joubert ran down the tunnel because some mindless thug threw a bottle at him according to talk sport this morning.
Anyway good post, in the main I thought the refs this weekend had good games, especially Barnes who is my choice to ref the final.

According to the latest inside info " he was needing the bathroom " ! No doubt it was as a realisation that he had well and truly cocked the whole thing up - what a tosser !

 

[TobesHodges]

According to the latest inside info " he was needing the bathroom " ! No doubt it was as a realisation that he had well and truly cocked the whole thing up - what a tosser !

What a $hitty excuse