[2015 RWC] Pool B: South Africa vs. Scotland (03/10/2015)

[Sker]

That is why i would love to get "Heineken" Meyer out of the bok setup and get a coach in that will play a more expansive game

if they change the playing style to a more expansive one it will accommodate more expansive players (which they do have)

but think about this for a min... what is the SA way of playing?

why change it? hell if they do change it i have nothing to ***** about...

its funny how all the Sa guys can complain about the boks... but when i say the exact same thing as what they do (more harshly of coarse) its a problem lol

There's this popular story about two men trying to make the same point.

The one carefully chose his words, made sure he got his point across and listened to other people and based his replies off what they were saying. Taking their words into consideration but politely disagreeing.

Then there was the other one, who just kept on shouting and shouting the same thing over and over again (which in essence, was the same as what the other guy was saying). But he was a bit an annoying ****, so no one cared. No one thought to give his opinion any value as he couldn't coherently form a sentence or couldn't resist trying to break something down, instead of building it up.

A few days later he got kicked in the balls by a dwarf tripping on acid. Because he's a dick? No, because sometimes **** happens.

You though are being a bit of a dick and a lot like that second guy. Try to be less of one, you've been here for a long, long time. Before you post whatever rant you have cooking up, stop and think. It might be hard, but maybe you'll like it once you get used to it. You'll find that people are a lot more receptive towards what you're saying if you don't come off sounding like a massive poes

 

[WaterboySA]

Just fell off my chair laughing.....wanted to say that but I'm new to the forum.......

 

[Jakedood]

That is why i would love to get "Heineken" Meyer out of the bok setup and get a coach in that will play a more expansive game

if they change the playing style to a more expansive one it will accommodate more expansive players (which they do have)

but think about this for a min... what is the SA way of playing?

why change it? hell if they do change it i have nothing to ***** about...

its funny how all the Sa guys can complain about the boks... but when i say the exact same thing as what they do (more harshly of coarse) its a problem lol

But in my experience as a player and avid fan of rugby, there will always be some forward dominance required to win matches at the highest level, South Africa traditionally have such a strong set piece, and though it isn't always exciting to watch, they don't use this alone for the basis of scoring tries.

For example, Maul's and scrums, as any ex forward will know who's played at a decent level, are incredibly taxing on your legs, they drain the crap out of you! And going backwards in these situations makes it even worse, and once forwards get tired, all of a sudden the props etc get beaten in one on ones, the fringe defence slackens, front foot, quick ball comes easier, and then the backs can run riot when the drift defence, or rush defence, isnt as intense as it would be at the beginning.

It is an integral aspect of rugby, and we as men (and women!), love to see the whole physcial dominance, and big collisions of the biggest men on the pitch.

So the SA use of the maul etc is not a bad one, especially with the outside backs they have to capitalise on any defensive errors. It's like calling the Irish use of the choke tackle boring.

But I can understand why it's not always exciting, the only thing I take issue with is that you seem to think is the only thing South Africa can do. They have not had the best year by their standards, but have had a lot of injuries to contend with, and there is a clear emergence of real young, exciting talent that attack the gain line. Pollard has been the starting 10 for a while now, he's not the kind of guy who likes to sit in the pocket and just kick a few drop goals, and the likes of Jesse Kriel, well I wish Ireland had him to replace the legend that is BOD!

Anyway to summarise, I think the springboks play to their strengths, something any rugby team would do, but there is certainly a high amount of creativity in their ranks, and Mauls alone are not enouogh to win rugby matches as often and as frequently as SA do. Of course we'll see vs Scotland what they're made of, but I expect you to be surprised by what happens in this game, it's likely to be fast, and open and I think that will play into the Springboks hands, given they have a very solid defence (I swear you guys have something in the water, you're freakishly large!) and pace and passing ability to match... it could be the most highly skilled game of the tournament so far!

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2J7jVGAUEQ

As a recent game for example, all I can see here are to fantastic backs moves, and they probably would have scored a third try if they'd used their forwards rather than going wide and knocking on?

 

[TRF_heineken]

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2J7jVGAUEQ

As a recent game for example, all I can see here are to fantastic backs moves, and they probably would have scored a third try if they'd used their forwards rather than going wide and knocking on?

And to add to that, how about the 2014 IRPA tries of the year final 5 nominees:

Two tries by the SA backs... yet not one single NZ try as a finalist... makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

[ENZED-88]

Not if you crunch the numbers; the window (time period your remark would be valid for) is just too small to give your statement much meaning.

Gosh a bit of homework.. Ok I'll try crunch the numbers ( correct me if I'm wrong maths is not my strongpoint) so up until the pro era the boks were ahead on head to head matches 21 wins to the ABs 18. Non whites were excluded in the tours of 1928 1949 and 1960 in which 4 games were played between the two teams in each of those tours 12 in total. Out of the 12 games 8 were won by SA, 3 by NZ with one draw. If we were to take those 8 wins from SA and 3 from NZ it leaves us with 15/13 split in NZ favour.
We will never know how the games would have panned out if NZ was to include non whites, shiit we might not have even got the 3 wins and got beaten in all 12 games but like I said we will never know, just wanted to give my statement a bit of meaning.

Sorry in advance for going off topic.

 

[Bull]

Inerestingly, that would leave Scotland at the top of the group.

Uh no. Scotland currently has 10 points, SA 7. Boks win this weekend and get 4 Scots 0 that leaves the Boks at the top of the pool with 11. Scots still have to play Samoa say they win and get 4 they'll go up to 14 and the Boks get 5 from the USA game....

 

[Sker]

If we win but Scotland gets a bonus point then the Scotland vs Samoa game is going to be very very interesting.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Gosh a bit of homework.. Ok I'll try crunch the numbers ( correct me if I'm wrong maths is not my strongpoint) so up until the pro era the boks were ahead on head to head matches 21 wins to the ABs 18. Non whites were excluded in the tours of 1928 1949 and 1960 in which 4 games were played between the two teams in each of those tours 12 in total. Out of the 12 games 8 were won by SA, 3 by NZ with one draw. If we were to take those 8 wins from SA and 3 from NZ it leaves us with 15/13 split in NZ favour.
We will never know how the games would have panned out if NZ was to include non whites, shiit we might not have even got the 3 wins and got beaten in all 12 games but like I said we will never know, just wanted to give my statement a bit of meaning.

Sorry in advance for going off topic.

I might make a thread for this but I don't really think it'd be worth it. I was surprised by your including the 1928 and 1949. I had heard previously that only the 1960 tour the exclusion of Maori players was forced by SA whereas in 1928 the NZRU decided by itself to leave just the 1 player they would otherwise have taken.

A quick search and I see most sources tend to back you up though.

It really was a ridicuous situation looking back now. The sad thing is this country continues to be plagued by racial politics. First it was the English, then us (I am a Boer) and since 1992 the ANC.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh no. Scotland currently has 10 points, SA 7. Boks win this weekend and get 4 Scots 0 that leaves the Boks at the top of the pool with 11. Scots still have to play Samoa say they win and get 4 they'll go up to 14 and the Boks get 5 from the USA game....

He probably means and should have clarified that if SA won Scotland could still top the log if SA don't score 4 tries for a BP or if they do then Scotland does as well and that Scotland do get the BP for margin which would then by default mean that Scotland remain ahead on points difference (currently ahead by 20). Certainly a distinct possibility. Lets not kid ourselves while we can still top the pool (this game is the key) and still have our destiny in our own hands the loss to Japan has put us in an uncomfortable position.

 

[Sotavalta]

The Team I would like to see play Scotland:

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Duane Vermeulen (Captain), 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Trevor Nyakane

 

[Mcfadden]

Pardon the ignorance regarding the Scottish rugby scene, but how prominently does Sean Maitland feature for the national side? Does he get beyond the bench very often? It would be very exciting if he was playing, although he'd have to be in pretty special form to overtake Seymour - who I think could give JP Pieterson a run for his money. I have memories of him being in exceptional form at the Crusaders. Those were good times. When the Crusaders still didn't quite win championships, but at least the backline had a few X-Factor players like Maitland and attacked with some real vigor. Maitland was a big part of that - he's a tall young man who takes great strides, very hard to put away and very quick. Not physical by any stretch, but tremendously athletic. Can any northern hemisphere posters advise whether this is still the case?

I suspect South Africa will take this match out. It'll be torrid initially, South Africa will have to find their feet early and take the crowd out of the equation, but if they remain calm, patient and be accurate then holes in the defense should start to emerge. Would so love to see the pairing of Kriel and De Allende if they're fit. Come on, these guys are South Africa's future. I was surprised at calls justifying JDV's selection over Kriel in the last match. Yes Kriel mightn't have been perfect, but he's what you're going to have for the next two world cups at least. Let him learn. Let him adjust his lines and get a rhythm going. I would like to see more of SA's younger players. Including the locks playing together, once SA reach the knock out stages. I think a lot of nations at this world cup need to back their youth, their form players a little more.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The Team I would like to see play Scotland:

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Duane Vermeulen (Captain), 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Trevor Nyakane

We would all like to see that team... But I don't think that will be our team. Fourie Du Preez and Schalk Burger might sit this match out due to ****les, and I have a sneaking suspicion it will be an all Sharks front row, if Jannie's knee is okay.

 

[Sotavalta]

We would all like to see that team... But I don't think that will be our team. Fourie Du Preez and Schalk Burger might sit this match out due to ****les, and I have a sneaking suspicion it will be an all Sharks front row, if Jannie's knee is okay.

Yeah this probably won't be the team, but a man can hope...

I really hope at least Fourie Du Preez can play as I am not a big fan of our other options at scrumhalf.

 

[YoungScud]

Uh no. Scotland currently has 10 points, SA 7. Boks win this weekend and get 4 Scots 0 that leaves the Boks at the top of the pool with 11. Scots still have to play Samoa say they win and get 4 they'll go up to 14 and the Boks get 5 from the USA game....

Uh yes. I replied to a suggestion that SA would win 13-17. That would, in fact, do exactly what I said it would, that is, leave Scotland at the top of the group. I can understand Saffies being a bit anxious right now, but fantasy is a bit too much.

 

[Will]

Pardon the ignorance regarding the Scottish rugby scene, but how prominently does Sean Maitland feature for the national side? Does he get beyond the bench very often? It would be very exciting if he was playing, although he'd have to be in pretty special form to overtake Seymour - who I think could give JP Pieterson a run for his money. I have memories of him being in exceptional form at the Crusaders. Those were good times. When the Crusaders still didn't quite win championships, but at least the backline had a few X-Factor players like Maitland and attacked with some real vigor. Maitland was a big part of that - he's a tall young man who takes great strides, very hard to put away and very quick. Not physical by any stretch, but tremendously athletic. Can any northern hemisphere posters advise whether this is still the case?

He's been unfortunate with injuries over the last few months, meaning that whilst he was out of the Glasgow team for the run in it was Canada's Van Der Merve, and Scotland's Seymour and Lamont who prospered on the wings. He's only just made it back to fitness in time for the World Cup and so we've yet to see him fully return to form. That said I've seen some great things from him at Glasgow, both at full back (he had a great game for Glasgow at 15 away to Bath earlier this year) and on the wing, and so I'd fully expect him to challenge or a regular starting spot again with Scotland when he gets up and running with London Irish.

 

[Icemn]

There's this popular story about two men trying to make the same point.

The one carefully chose his words, made sure he got his point across and listened to other people and based his replies off what they were saying. Taking their words into consideration but politely disagreeing.

Then there was the other one, who just kept on shouting and shouting the same thing over and over again (which in essence, was the same as what the other guy was saying). But he was a bit an annoying ****, so no one cared. No one thought to give his opinion any value as he couldn't coherently form a sentence or couldn't resist trying to break something down, instead of building it up.

A few days later he got kicked in the balls by a dwarf tripping on acid. Because he's a dick? No, because sometimes **** happens.

You though are being a bit of a dick and a lot like that second guy. Try to be less of one, you've been here for a long, long time. Before you post whatever rant you have cooking up, stop and think. It might be hard, but maybe you'll like it once you get used to it. You'll find that people are a lot more receptive towards what you're saying if you don't come off sounding like a massive poes

i guess that would explain why my dick gets hard everytime i look in the mirror... yes ive got one... a dick and a mirror...

remember... it takes a big one, to notice a small one... no, not dick... Poes

But in my experience as a player and avid fan of rugby, there will always be some forward dominance required to win matches at the highest level, South Africa traditionally have such a strong set piece, and though it isn't always exciting to watch, they don't use this alone for the basis of scoring tries.

For example, Maul's and scrums, as any ex forward will know who's played at a decent level, are incredibly taxing on your legs, they drain the crap out of you! And going backwards in these situations makes it even worse, and once forwards get tired, all of a sudden the props etc get beaten in one on ones, the fringe defence slackens, front foot, quick ball comes easier, and then the backs can run riot when the drift defence, or rush defence, isnt as intense as it would be at the beginning.

It is an integral aspect of rugby, and we as men (and women!), love to see the whole physcial dominance, and big collisions of the biggest men on the pitch.

So the SA use of the maul etc is not a bad one, especially with the outside backs they have to capitalise on any defensive errors. It's like calling the Irish use of the choke tackle boring.

But I can understand why it's not always exciting, the only thing I take issue with is that you seem to think is the only thing South Africa can do. They have not had the best year by their standards, but have had a lot of injuries to contend with, and there is a clear emergence of real young, exciting talent that attack the gain line. Pollard has been the starting 10 for a while now, he's not the kind of guy who likes to sit in the pocket and just kick a few drop goals, and the likes of Jesse Kriel, well I wish Ireland had him to replace the legend that is BOD!

Anyway to summarise, I think the springboks play to their strengths, something any rugby team would do, but there is certainly a high amount of creativity in their ranks, and Mauls alone are not enouogh to win rugby matches as often and as frequently as SA do. Of course we'll see vs Scotland what they're made of, but I expect you to be surprised by what happens in this game, it's likely to be fast, and open and I think that will play into the Springboks hands, given they have a very solid defence (I swear you guys have something in the water, you're freakishly large!) and pace and passing ability to match... it could be the most highly skilled game of the tournament so far!

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2J7jVGAUEQ

As a recent game for example, all I can see here are to fantastic backs moves, and they probably would have scored a third try if they'd used their forwards rather than going wide and knocking on?

i agree with what you are saying, they can play expansive but when the pressure builds and they run out of ideas they fall back to what they know

time and the game vs Scotland will tell...

interesting fact...

in 95 Chester Williams scored a hatrick vs samoa and the Boks won the RWC
in 2007 Bryan Banana scored a hatrick vs Samoa and JdV got injured, was ruled out of the RWC and the boks won it
in 2015 JP Pietersen scored a hatrick vs Samoa and JdV got injured, was ruled out of the RWC... so...

well... what i can tell you is... you seem to "play better" without JdV

 

[SomeOke]

Team was just announced, strongest line-up we've had thus far in my opinion:

1. Beast
2. BdP
3. Jdp
4. Eben
5. Lood
6. Flouw
7. Schalk (vc)
8. Vermulen
9. du Preez (c)
10. Pollard
11. Habana
12. DdA
13 Kriel
14. Pietersen
15. le Roux
16. Strauss
17. Nyakane
18. Malherbe
19. PSdT
20. Alberts
21. Pienaar
22. Lambie
23. Serfontein

Basically in the starting line up:
Matfield > Lood
Strauss > Bis
Jdv > Kriel

Kolisi and Brits make way for Bismarck and Alberts on the bench.
Great side, glad to see our injury list wasn't so bad (apart from Vic), super excited for the match now!
Edit: My only issue is Jannie over Malherbe but you can't have everything.

 

[BraidyBoy]

If we win but Scotland gets a bonus point then the Scotland vs Samoa game is going to be very very interesting.

If WE win and WE get the Bonus Point the Scotland v Samoa game is purely academic !

 

[SomeOke]

If WE win and WE get the Bonus Point the Scotland v Samoa game is purely academic !

Not for us it won't be haha. Do us a favour?

 

[Icemn]

Team was just announced, strongest line-up we've had thus far in my opinion:

1. Beast
2. BdP
3. Jdp
4. Eben
5. Lood
6. Flouw
7. Schalk (vc)
8. Vermulen
9. du Preez (c)
10. Pollard
11. Habana
12. DdA
13 Kriel
14. Pietersen
15. le Roux
16. Strauss
17. Nyakane
18. Malherbe
19. PSdT
20. Alberts
21. Pienaar
22. Lambie
23. Serfontein

Basically in the starting line up:
Matfield > Lood
Strauss > Bis
Jdv > Kriel

Kolisi and Brits make way for Bismarck and Alberts on the bench.
Great side, glad to see our injury list wasn't so bad (apart from Vic), super excited for the match now!
Edit: My only issue is Jannie over Malherbe but you can't have everything.

id just swop Bismark for Strauss... who else is there to replace beast and JDP? eish
glad to see Lood in there! he is awesome!
is Du Preez now the official Captain? or matfield? is du preez just captain for the game because matfield is not playing? if du preez is captain im glad they picking someone that can play for 80min... or 70min atleast... as im not sure du preez can play the entire 80 anymore...

 

[BraidyBoy]

Not for us it won't be haha. Do us a favour?

How are the mighty fallen. RIP