[2015 RWC] Pool B: South Africa vs. Scotland (03/10/2015)

[WaterboySA]

If we end in 2nd place, won't the road to the semi's be easier?Honest question.......

 

[Sker]

I love how antsy everyone is during the world cup

 

[Icemn]

Those are club teams that don't play against SA teams though- not at all the same scenario. IF our teams were facing off regularly and those teams were supported above ours then only could it be comparable.

I mean, I support Racing 92 of France. Not the same scenario as I'd be behind WP/Stormers if the two were ever to face off.

ahh... so not political anymore... @SomeOke...

i rest my case...

If we end in 2nd place, won't the road to the semi's be easier?Honest question.......

i think you screwed either way... whether its Aus or Wales...

 

[TRF_heineken]

If we end in 2nd place, won't the road to the semi's be easier?Honest question.......

Yes and no...

If we finish 2nd, we'll most probably miss the All Blacks in the Semi's if we win our QF. But then again, We'll play against a team that finished first in their pool...

 

[Jakedood]

the boks no1 and only card is the running maul or getting a kickable penalty if the maul is stopped illegally. If the opposition finds a way to stop the maul legally then im afraid the boks have nothing else to offer. So i cant see them getting past the 1/4s as they are going to end up 2nd in this group

I actually disagree with this. Admittedly I may not be the best source of knowledge on the Springboks like a lot of you guys here, but I'd say you have a very fast rush defence, the number of intercept tries picked off by Habana/Pietersen over the years is ridiculous.

There are also other ways to score tries// for example, if Lood de Jager (who I think looks and plays remarkably like Iain Henderson, even the facial expressions) and Etzebeth, SA have two highly mobile, but exceptionally powerful ball carriers to break the gain line and then some, leaving big gaps for them to continue trucking up in the tight, or if they do spread wide, you've got what people are saying (again I dont know too much about them) a very very exciting and talented centre pairing, with Pollard a player who can really release the rest of his back Line.

Add into that even more powerful ball carriers in Vermuelen etc, and that sounds pretty formidable attacking wise to me, even if SA simply play territory and choose to punish the Scottish erros, pressurising the lineout and scrums, though how good is the Saffer scrum these days?

Finally in wille le Roux, you have the perfect full back, strong tackler, tall and strong under the high ball, phenomenal reader of the game and the defensive line, a big boot, and pace to burn! If you're saying all teh South African's can do is maul, I'm not sure i can agree with that.

And in stopping a maul legally requires a bit of luck and to clamp the ball carrier before he can pass the ball pack, elements which cannot be replicated time and again (unless you throw to the front of the lineout, that's just stupid, and not something South Africa would need as their lineout has always been a real strength of theirs.

If I'm being stupid please tell me, but I don't think a time with this talent and strength can be limited to one method of scoring tries/winning penalties. They're a dark horse, and can beat anyone on their day! If this is in doubt, why not take a look at some of the RC deciders not this year, but the previous 2 years!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yes and no...

If we finish 2nd, we'll most probably miss the All Blacks in the Semi's if we win our QF. But then again, We'll play against a team that finished first in their pool...

It's a yes from me as I rate all of Wales, Aus and England on a par or close enough. From there on if we get there it should be (ever so slightly) easier to the final.

 

[ENZED-88]

Have the SA team been named? Can't see SA losing this game.

 

[Sker]

I actually disagree with this. Admittedly I may not be the best source of knowledge on the Springboks like a lot of you guys here, but I'd say you have a very fast rush defence, the number of intercept tries picked off by Habana/Pietersen over the years is ridiculous.

There are also other ways to score tries// for example, if Lood de Jager (who I think looks and plays remarkably like Iain Henderson, even the facial expressions) and Etzebeth, SA have two highly mobile, but exceptionally powerful ball carriers to break the gain line and then some, leaving big gaps for them to continue trucking up in the tight, or if they do spread wide, you've got what people are saying (again I dont know too much about them) a very very exciting and talented centre pairing, with Pollard a player who can really release the rest of his back Line.

Add into that even more powerful ball carriers in Vermuelen etc, and that sounds pretty formidable attacking wise to me, even if SA simply play territory and choose to punish the Scottish erros, pressurising the lineout and scrums, though how good is the Saffer scrum these days?

Finally in wille le Roux, you have the perfect full back, strong tackler, tall and strong under the high ball, phenomenal reader of the game and the defensive line, a big boot, and pace to burn! If you're saying all teh South African's can do is maul, I'm not sure i can agree with that.

And in stopping a maul legally requires a bit of luck and to clamp the ball carrier before he can pass the ball pack, elements which cannot be replicated time and again (unless you throw to the front of the lineout, that's just stupid, and not something South Africa would need as their lineout has always been a real strength of theirs.

If I'm being stupid please tell me, but I don't think a time with this talent and strength can be limited to one method of scoring tries/winning penalties. They're a dark horse, and can beat anyone on their day! If this is in doubt, why not take a look at some of the RC deciders not this year, but the previous 2 years!

Good post, good post. I'll buy you a beer if you're ever in South Africa.

 

[ENZED-88]

Just saw this and just wanted to point out that SA would have the edge pre-isolation. Its only in the pro era that NZ has come to the fore ahead of SA and the amount of games we play in the pro era (~3 a year vs a fraction of that in the amateur days) skews it somewhat: sure SA is behind on dominance if you look at games played but we are actually ahead if you look at time as a measure since our first match up.

Just thought I'd point that out.

it might have been a very different story if the ABs could've picked their team without having to conform to SA political system while touring.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I actually disagree with this. Admittedly I may not be the best source of knowledge on the Springboks like a lot of you guys here, but I'd say you have a very fast rush defence, the number of intercept tries picked off by Habana/Pietersen over the years is ridiculous.

There are also other ways to score tries// for example, if Lood de Jager (who I think looks and plays remarkably like Iain Henderson, even the facial expressions) and Etzebeth, SA have two highly mobile, but exceptionally powerful ball carriers to break the gain line and then some, leaving big gaps for them to continue trucking up in the tight, or if they do spread wide, you've got what people are saying (again I dont know too much about them) a very very exciting and talented centre pairing, with Pollard a player who can really release the rest of his back Line.

Add into that even more powerful ball carriers in Vermuelen etc, and that sounds pretty formidable attacking wise to me, even if SA simply play territory and choose to punish the Scottish erros, pressurising the lineout and scrums, though how good is the Saffer scrum these days?

Finally in wille le Roux, you have the perfect full back, strong tackler, tall and strong under the high ball, phenomenal reader of the game and the defensive line, a big boot, and pace to burn! If you're saying all teh South African's can do is maul, I'm not sure i can agree with that.

And in stopping a maul legally requires a bit of luck and to clamp the ball carrier before he can pass the ball pack, elements which cannot be replicated time and again (unless you throw to the front of the lineout, that's just stupid, and not something South Africa would need as their lineout has always been a real strength of theirs.

If I'm being stupid please tell me, but I don't think a time with this talent and strength can be limited to one method of scoring tries/winning penalties. They're a dark horse, and can beat anyone on their day! If this is in doubt, why not take a look at some of the RC deciders not this year, but the previous 2 years!

Very good post! +1

And you make a bunch of very valid points which the usual Springbok-haters always seem to forget, or just don't want to mention because it's so easy to use the "stampkar" policy which we haven't used that much in the past 4 years... But because some members don't have anything fresh and new to insult us with, they resort to those remarks and expect us to take them seriously. Which is a laugh on its own.

Have the SA team been named? Can't see SA losing this game.

No, the SA team will be announced tonight at 18:00

 

[WaterboySA]

I actually disagree with this. Admittedly I may not be the best source of knowledge on the Springboks like a lot of you guys here, but I'd say you have a very fast rush defence, the number of intercept tries picked off by Habana/Pietersen over the years is ridiculous.

There are also other ways to score tries// for example, if Lood de Jager (who I think looks and plays remarkably like Iain Henderson, even the facial expressions) and Etzebeth, SA have two highly mobile, but exceptionally powerful ball carriers to break the gain line and then some, leaving big gaps for them to continue trucking up in the tight, or if they do spread wide, you've got what people are saying (again I dont know too much about them) a very very exciting and talented centre pairing, with Pollard a player who can really release the rest of his back Line.

Add into that even more powerful ball carriers in Vermuelen etc, and that sounds pretty formidable attacking wise to me, even if SA simply play territory and choose to punish the Scottish erros, pressurising the lineout and scrums, though how good is the Saffer scrum these days?

Finally in wille le Roux, you have the perfect full back, strong tackler, tall and strong under the high ball, phenomenal reader of the game and the defensive line, a big boot, and pace to burn! If you're saying all teh South African's can do is maul, I'm not sure i can agree with that.

And in stopping a maul legally requires a bit of luck and to clamp the ball carrier before he can pass the ball pack, elements which cannot be replicated time and again (unless you throw to the front of the lineout, that's just stupid, and not something South Africa would need as their lineout has always been a real strength of theirs.

If I'm being stupid please tell me, but I don't think a time with this talent and strength can be limited to one method of scoring tries/winning penalties. They're a dark horse, and can beat anyone on their day! If this is in doubt, why not take a look at some of the RC deciders not this year, but the previous 2 years!

Thank you sir....just gotta love the Irish...

 

[Sker]

Very good post! +1

And you make a bunch of very valid points which the usual Springbok-haters always seem to forget, or just don't want to mention because it's so easy to use the "stampkar" policy which we haven't used that much in the past 4 years... But because some members don't have anything fresh and new to insult us with, they resort to those remarks and expect us to take them seriously. Which is a laugh on its own.



No, the SA team will be announced tonight at 18:00

I saw him first, leave him alone.

 

[Icemn]

I actually disagree with this. Admittedly I may not be the best source of knowledge on the Springboks like a lot of you guys here, but I'd say you have a very fast rush defence, the number of intercept tries picked off by Habana/Pietersen over the years is ridiculous.

There are also other ways to score tries// for example, if Lood de Jager (who I think looks and plays remarkably like Iain Henderson, even the facial expressions) and Etzebeth, SA have two highly mobile, but exceptionally powerful ball carriers to break the gain line and then some, leaving big gaps for them to continue trucking up in the tight, or if they do spread wide, you've got what people are saying (again I dont know too much about them) a very very exciting and talented centre pairing, with Pollard a player who can really release the rest of his back Line.

Add into that even more powerful ball carriers in Vermuelen etc, and that sounds pretty formidable attacking wise to me, even if SA simply play territory and choose to punish the Scottish erros, pressurising the lineout and scrums, though how good is the Saffer scrum these days?

Finally in wille le Roux, you have the perfect full back, strong tackler, tall and strong under the high ball, phenomenal reader of the game and the defensive line, a big boot, and pace to burn! If you're saying all teh South African's can do is maul, I'm not sure i can agree with that.

And in stopping a maul legally requires a bit of luck and to clamp the ball carrier before he can pass the ball pack, elements which cannot be replicated time and again (unless you throw to the front of the lineout, that's just stupid, and not something South Africa would need as their lineout has always been a real strength of theirs.

If I'm being stupid please tell me, but I don't think a time with this talent and strength can be limited to one method of scoring tries/winning penalties. They're a dark horse, and can beat anyone on their day! If this is in doubt, why not take a look at some of the RC deciders not this year, but the previous 2 years!

well you can say this for basically all the top teams and their respective players

if it was so easy as you make it sound, why don't we see this from SA? they are capable of it

but they seem to only have one dimension... the maul

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

it might have been a very different story if the ABs could've picked their team without having to conform to SA political system while touring.

Not if you crunch the numbers; the window (time period your remark would be valid for) is just too small to give your statement much meaning.

 

[nickdnz]

well you can say this for basically all the top teams and their respective players

if it was so easy as you make it sound, why don't we see this from SA? they are capable of it

but they seem to only have one dimension... the maul

Dude.

Everyone gets that you find South African rugby boring.

Seriously man, it's been four years of hating on the Springboks.

Support more expansive teams, enjoy other teams style of rugby. But do you really have to make 50% of your posts criticizing (in my opinion unfairly) your national team? No South African poster is sitting there thinking "Hmm, I wonder whether or not Iceman still think South African team still play stampkar rugby". They get it. Why not offer alternatives in coaches and players who you would like to see?

 

[SomeOke]

Just saw this and just wanted to point out that SA would have the edge pre-isolation. Its only in the pro era that NZ has come to the fore ahead of SA and the amount of games we play in the pro era (~3 a year vs a fraction of that in the amateur days) skews it somewhat: sure SA is behind on dominance if you look at games played but we are actually ahead if you look at time as a measure since our first match up.

Just thought I'd point that out.

Haha fair point, I was 4 years old in 1994 though so my opinion is really based on my own rugby experiences. I'm also not saying I prefer New Zealand at all, I love my country and the rugby we play, NZ has just edged us recently.
@Icemn
Perhaps it's a little glory hunting to support Man-U or Liverpool in SA but the key difference here is that NONE OF US LIVE IN THE UK, therefore none of us can support our home team in the Premier League because we don't have one. This means anyone who watches football can just pick a team to support, and no one can say they are being disloyal to their home town/city/area. It's completely different from supporting your national side.

The truth is, Springbok rugby has done a lot of evolving recently and there are plenty of examples of us playing an expansive game and selecting talented players that play running rugby (le Roux, Pollard, Kriel, DDA).
You could only be supporting the All Blacks for two reasons:
- You like supporting the dominant team in world rugby.
- You like annoying your fellow South Africans.

Since I'm more inclined to believe the second one, I guess you win again :clapping:.

 

[WaterboySA]

It's good that a non-South African posted that, thank you TRF_nickdnz

 

[TRF_heineken]

Dude.

Everyone gets that you find South African rugby boring.

Seriously man, it's been four years of hating on the Springboks.

Support more expansive teams, enjoy other teams style of rugby. But do you really have to make 50% of your posts criticizing (in my opinion unfairly) your national team? No South African poster is sitting there thinking "Hmm, I wonder whether or not Iceman still think South African team still play stampkar rugby". They get it. Why not offer alternatives in coaches and players who you would like to see?

That would be easy for him now that Eddie Jones is taking over at the Stormers. Not that the Stormers has ever really played "stampkar" rugby...

It's clear he has an issue with the Traditional style of play of the Bokke. But dammit, why?? if it produces results, then we'll keep on using that tactic.

Also, in the Japan game, Lood De Jager did exactly what @Jakedood mentioned, and interestingly enough, Lood did the exact same thing against NZ in the RC earlier this year. On both occasions we LOST!!!

Yet, when we went back to our Maul, we won against Samoa, even though the majority of our tries was scored by our backline (1 by Habana, and 3 by JPP). But that will go unnoticed to him... As usual...

 

[rebel zebra]

Was only trying to generate a bit of debate TRF. I've no idea what teams will be picked.
That said, your analysis with a 14.5 to 0.5 man to man advantage for the Boks, does leave a bit of doubt about your objectivity?
Only Bennett gets a draw.
I thought I heard that Alberts was injured?

 

[Icemn]

Dude.

Everyone gets that you find South African rugby boring.

Seriously man, it's been four years of hating on the Springboks.

Support more expansive teams, enjoy other teams style of rugby. But do you really have to make 50% of your posts criticizing (in my opinion unfairly) your national team? No South African poster is sitting there thinking "Hmm, I wonder whether or not Iceman still think South African team still play stampkar rugby". They get it. Why not offer alternatives in coaches and players who you would like to see?

That is why i would love to get "Heineken" Meyer out of the bok setup and get a coach in that will play a more expansive game

if they change the playing style to a more expansive one it will accommodate more expansive players (which they do have)

but think about this for a min... what is the SA way of playing?

why change it? hell if they do change it i have nothing to ***** about...

its funny how all the Sa guys can complain about the boks... but when i say the exact same thing as what they do (more harshly of coarse) its a problem lol