[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Australia (03/10/2015)

[RJAH777]

And you are right, you can get 2 if you lose by 7 or less and get 4 tries. But england will only get one bonus point against Uruguay for 4+ tries

 

[81st_Minute]

I have a feeling it's going to be really, really close. Definitely will be the highlight of the tournament so far.

 

[Zed]

I do think this time is different though. May be proven wrong, but Cheika's decision to get an Argie scrum coach to really drill our boys seems to have made a bigger and more noticeable difference in our scrum than I can remember

Fingers crossed. I play in the backs so no idea what effect moving Pocock to 8 is going to have on the scrum. Have to have a forward enlighten me!

 

[Mcfadden]

I see a lot of nonsense has been written overnight both sides as bad as each other. Just to clarify a few things,

Cricket:
England (& Wales) have made the final of three world cups but not since 1992.
We have won a T20 word cup.
The difference between T20, ODI and Test cricket can sometime be comparable to Union, League & Gridiron less in rules but in player transition.
Test ranking tend to be nonsense as they take forever to fix a poor run of form and don't react quickly to good run.most fans unless they are compare themselves to how well they play against Aus, Eng, SA & India
It competes with in terms of size as the world's 2nd sport (Olympics is weird and don't count as an individual sport)

Football:
The ranking can also be nonsense at times England had a poor world cup which Wales didn't qualify for and have won all their Euro qualifier matches. However by virtue of Wales' group being harder and their great work in they have more points up for grabs. Plus most people will tell you England have c been consistently higher ranked they should be. Wales probably are now.

Rugby Union:
The ranking are quite simply a lot of rubbish mid tournament due to double points. Let's see where everyone is at the end....plus if NZ are still top but came second I suspect most people will st they don't matter unless you're a Kiwi.



Now can we try to keep this civil? I will note I very rarely see Internet fights break out between Aus and Eng fans I dunno something but the rivalry between the two countries rarely spills over into resentment and most things are taken in the context of being banter. Don't know why that doesn't happen with other nations as much.

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My biggest worry about Poite (apart from the fact the game will be turgid because of him) and Marler is we'll have a Steve Walsh like experience and he'll scrummage fine but still be pinged because he 'cheats'

Not saying he didn't against Wales it was blatant as he'll and he was extremely lucky but so much has been written about it he may go within the norm on Saturday.

Fair points. I'd say other nations have more level headed and less aggressive posters. Particularly South Africa and Australia on this forum where the posters are few but the substance is strong. It just depends what kind of crop of people you get. I've been part of forums where The Welsh and Aussies have been unbearable. Anyway, can't wait for the match!

 

[Kiwi_]

Fair points. I'd say other nations have more level headed and less aggressive posters. Particularly South Africa and Australia on this forum where the posters are few but the substance is strong. It just depends what kind of crop of people you get. I've been part of forums where The Welsh and Aussies have been unbearable. Anyway, can't wait for the match!

Well the forums main admin sets the tone for the site, with "English arrogance" under his name.

The main point ncurd was England are not dominant in many sports in the World any more, not even close in most cases, even though that's how a lot of your fellow countrymen perceive it, it's just not the case.

 

[smartcooky]

Fingers crossed. I play in the backs so no idea what effect moving Pocock to 8 is going to have on the scrum. Have to have a forward enlighten me!

It means little in the modern game, since there are usually so few scrums. He may play No 8 when actual scrums are put down, but I think Scott Fardy will run the cover-defensive lines from ruck and tackle that a player like Read would for the All Blacks. Pocock will just do what he always does, make a complete pest of himself at the breakdown.

If England want to kill Pocock's effectiveness they will need either

a. make the play go where he isn't, or

b. if they are forced to go where he is, the ball carrier needs a wing man, and needs to make Pocock be the tackler by running right at him nd making him come to ground, and then the wingman clears out the ball before Pocock has time to get to his feet.

The All Blacks did this very effectively in the 2011 semi-final, and completely shut him out of the game.

Whatever the England ball carriers do they MUST NOT go on one-off runs without support because if they get isolated and end up at Pocock's feet, he WILL turn the ball over.

However, Australia's selection could backfire. In choosing Fardy, Pocock and Hooper as their loose trio, they have left themselves without a genuine "hit-up" ball carrier in the mould of a Kaino or Read.

This game will be fascinating

 

[ncurd]

You realise that's a joke here right?

Rule of any sport forum is that a longer an argument goes on for the Englishman he will be accused of arrogance.

 

[TommiG88]

Well the forums main admin sets the tone for the site, with "English arrogance" under his name.

The main point ncurd was England are not dominant in many sports in the World any more, not even close in most cases, even though that's how a lot of your fellow countrymen perceive it, it's just not the case.

If you having nothing good to say, say nothing at all comes to mind with you.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It means little in the modern game, since there are usually so few scrums. He may play No 8 when actual scrums are put down, but I think Scott Fardy will run the cover-defensive lines from ruck and tackle that a player like Read would for the All Blacks. Pocock will just do what he always does, make a complete pest of himself at the breakdown.

If England want to kill Pocock's effectiveness they will need either

a. make the play go where he isn't, or

b. if they are forced to go where he is, the ball carrier needs a wing man, and needs to make Pocock be the tackler by running right at him nd making him come to ground, and then the wingman clears out the ball before Pocock has time to get to his feet.

The All Blacks did this very effectively in the 2011 semi-final, and completely shut him out of the game.

Whatever the England ball carriers do they MUST NOT go on one-off runs without support because if they get isolated and end up at Pocock's feet, he WILL turn the ball over.

However, Australia's selection could backfire. In choosing Fardy, Pocock and Hooper as their loose trio, they have left themselves without a genuine "hit-up" ball carrier in the mould of a Kaino or Read.

This game will be fascinating

Much of what you say is right, but I think there's even more to it than that.

At scrum time, the Aussie front 5 are really going to have to step up to the mark because they're not going to get the same support from the back row that Marler and his mates will. If England scrummage with all 8 really working, that could easily lead to penalties and sin binnings. We've beaten the Aussies on scrum derived penalty tries before. And having a non specialist trying to control the ball at 8 is a big ask if the scrum is retreating.

Hooper and Pocock will be great at the breakdown, but it also restricts line out and carrying options in the heavy traffic. England will need to be smart to counter them and mauling may be one way of tying them in and reducing their effectiveness.

 

[Wendigo7]

I just look at the Aussie team and think where are the points coming from?

England's backline is much quicker, so linebreaks won't be easy to convert even if Folau plays well. Lack of ball carriers in the pack with the breakdown orientated backrow, average kicker, poor lineout.

I'm not saying England can't be exposed easily either, but the territory game would severely suffocate Australia unlike Wales.

I'd just like to win though in all honesty

 

[Jakedood]

Last I checked, England didn't make it out of the group stages at the CWC, lost to Bangledesh, so that isn't really a good example. The Ashes is a test series against one Nation, and congrats you won it 3-2 at home, I was pleased for that win TBH, not a fan of the Aus cricket team.

Your best result at the Cricket World Cup is actually only making it to the quarter finals once or twice? Terrible return.

As far as footballing goes, Wales is actually ahead of you in the rankings now and in Rugby they're ahead of you, so you're not even the best on your Island at your main sports anymore.

Andy Murray is Scottish.

At least you have Lewis Hamilton.

Not trolling or anything, just trying to put things in perspective for some of you. You have delusion of grandeur, you really do. Confidence is one thing, being delusional and arrogant is another. Outsiders perspective looking in. Stay classy Tallshort.

Don't forget that the so called number 1 in golf "who is now number 2" is Rory McIlroy, from Northern Ireland, and who plays for ireland in the Golf World Cup, or whateber they call it... so no, not top in that I'm afraid!

 

[TommiG88]

Don't forget that the so called number 1 in golf "who is now number 2" is Rory McIlroy, from Northern Ireland, and who plays for ireland in the Golf World Cup, or whateber they call it... so no, not top in that I'm afraid!

How can he be the so called number 1 if he's ranked second?

Edit; why has the English threads for games become trolling grounds for people that have nothing better to do?

The game is tomorrow and we have the neanderthrals of Scotland*, Ireland* and New Zealand* talking about everything other than the game itself. It's a rugby forum, not a game of *** for tat. Rant over

*disclaimer - not all fans from those countries are neanderthrals.

 

[smartcooky]

I just look at the Aussie team and think where are the points coming from?

Folau, AAC, Hooper, Kuridrani, Giteau. They tend to score their points five at a time

England's backline is much quicker....

You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding.

OK, Brown is quick, I'll give you that, and May is pretty quick, but that us only useful if the ball gets to him. The rest of the England backs? Show Ponies and Cart Horses. Burgess is slower than a wet week!

The Wallabies' speed is in mifield, and they will shut down the likes of Joseph and Barritt.

 

[Ocean]

Last I checked, England didn't make it out of the group stages at the CWC, lost to Bangledesh, so that isn't really a good example. The Ashes is a test series against one Nation, and congrats you won it 3-2 at home, I was pleased for that win TBH, not a fan of the Aus cricket team.

Your best result at the Cricket World Cup is actually only making it to the quarter finals once or twice? Terrible return.

As far as footballing goes, Wales is actually ahead of you in the rankings now and in Rugby they're ahead of you, so you're not even the best on your Island at your main sports anymore.

Andy Murray is Scottish.

At least you have Lewis Hamilton.

Not trolling or anything, just trying to put things in perspective for some of you. You have delusion of grandeur, you really do. Confidence is one thing, being delusional and arrogant is another. Outsiders perspective looking in. Stay classy Tallshort.

Do you not deal in facts....England 3 times runners' up in CWC.

Prediction......12 months time Wales will no longer be ranked above England in Football or Rugby. Football, first time in history.

Again, England competes at a very high level across a vast array of sports, not many nations can rival.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The Aussie midfield and outside backs are classy and a yard quicker than England's IMO

Folau and Giteau will be quicker than Brown/Barritt but I'd say Joseph/Watson/May would be noticeably quicker than their opposite numbers.
Getting the ball to them in any semblance of space to stretch their legs is a completely different matter though.

 

[Redcatstorm]

I think Australia will lose today, not by much, but lose. 25 - 22 or something. Bonus point to Australia, they go to 10, England go to 10.

Kinda sucks we are going to lose the match the day before its played

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Folau, AAC, Hooper, Kuridrani, Giteau. They tend to score their points five at a time



You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding.

OK, Brown is quick, I'll give you that, and May is pretty quick, but that us only useful if the ball gets to him. The rest of the England backs? Show Ponies and Cart Horses. Burgess is slower than a wet week!

The Wallabies' speed is in mifield, and they will shut down the likes of Joseph and Barritt.

Burgess isn't starting..
You've go it the wrong way round tbh: Brown is no slouch but no speedster - that would be May.
Saying Johnny May is pretty quick is like saying Willem Alberts is fairly powerful!
And now that Joseph is playing at 13 I'm less worried about May and co not getting the ball.
Watson is very quick too
Joseph is quick. He has quick acceleration and likes to sit his men down before going round them.
Am I missing something - is Kuridrani electrically fast?

I'm not arguing that we have more pace than the Aussies, I'm just not convinced we have much less, if any..

 

[Zed]

It means little in the modern game, since there are usually so few scrums. He may play No 8 when actual scrums are put down, but I think Scott Fardy will run the cover-defensive lines from ruck and tackle that a player like Read would for the All Blacks. Pocock will just do what he always does, make a complete pest of himself at the breakdown.

If England want to kill Pocock's effectiveness they will need either

a. make the play go where he isn't, or

b. if they are forced to go where he is, the ball carrier needs a wing man, and needs to make Pocock be the tackler by running right at him nd making him come to ground, and then the wingman clears out the ball before Pocock has time to get to his feet.

The All Blacks did this very effectively in the 2011 semi-final, and completely shut him out of the game.

Whatever the England ball carriers do they MUST NOT go on one-off runs without support because if they get isolated and end up at Pocock's feet, he WILL turn the ball over.

However, Australia's selection could backfire. In choosing Fardy, Pocock and Hooper as their loose trio, they have left themselves without a genuine "hit-up" ball carrier in the mould of a Kaino or Read.

This game will be fascinating

Cool, thanks. And I agree it will be a great game. Hard to pick a winner.

 

[ncurd]

May is outstandingly quick and appears to have stopped going sideways and is beating defenders.
Joseph is less quick but tends to go round defenders, I notice teams in closing him down are having to commit extra people leaving room out wide.

 

[Zed]

Folau and Giteau will be quicker than Brown/Barritt but I'd say Joseph/Watson/May would be noticeably quicker than their opposite numbers.
Getting the ball to them in any semblance of space to stretch their legs is a completely different matter though.

I suppose if you averaged out their speed the back-lines would be pretty similar. Foley, Gits & Folau are quicker than their opposite number, but then May and Watson are quicker than our wings. Much of a muchness.