[2014 TRC] Argentina v South Africa in Salta (23/08/2014)

[TRF_heineken]

Some thoughts though I think I've made them clear enough for what they are worth;

Not at all surprised by Etzebeth and Smith starting. Should hopefully go some ways to remedy the issues at line-out and is a more like for like selection considering injuries. Much better balance all round IMO.

Why Beast gets benched byt not Jannie I can't understand. Malherbe is a better scrummager as is and in some sort of form despite his young age for a prop. I'm not saying Jannie has no spot but he has been played to death. And I'd have been happier with one of Marcel van der Merwe or Nyakane coming in rather than Steenkamp. Actually Heinke van der Merwe and Julian Redelinghuys would have featured for me but they're not even if in the squads so no point in wishing.

I'm not going to waste my time deriding the continued inclusion of Pienaar any more. I've said enough on that and I'll keep scratching my head there but other than that I am happy HM has kept the faith in the rest despite not living up to expectation in round 1. Hopefully they'll show why they are all there.

Quitely confident despite the fixture being away. Hopefully an entertaining match. I'll go Bokke by 5 to 10.

Too many changes is not always a good thing. Bringing in Etzebeth, Smith and Guthro are mainly forced changes. To replace both props immediately after one test could put the scrum in an even more uncomfortable position. And Jannie stood his ground a lot better than Beast. I think Beast's form has been rather poor the last couple of tests. If it was up to me, I'd take him out of the matchday 23 altogether. But as we all know, HM is a man of consistency and doesn't like to change too much.

With that said, I like the team, and I hope Juan Smith has an absolute blinder to complete his fairy tale story.

 

[Sker]

I agree with you to a certain extent, still I think Jannie can be rotated much earlier in the game. Young blood fired up the backline, now lets see some young blood fire up our scrum.

I'm very excited for the game, one of my heroes returning to play for the Boks.

Hopefully a dry nice game so Willie can wreak havoc!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ayerza will be licking his lips at the chance of taking Jannie on again.

 

[Jaguares]

Tendai is in the Fantasy dream team:

:lol:

 

[Draggs]

I agree with you to a certain extent, still I think Jannie can be rotated much earlier in the game. Young blood fired up the backline, now lets see some young blood fire up our scrum.

I'm very excited for the game, one of my heroes returning to play for the Boks.

Hopefully a dry nice game so Willie can wreak havoc!

Sker!!!

Jannie is exhausted, I cannot recall him being rested for us or the Boks at all in the past two seasons. Why not give Malherbe a shot? Don't want to go into 2015 the only true tighthead a wiped out Jannie. Give him a rest, maybe 15-20 minutes at the end, and I think he will last. With Beast heading to France, we will have TdT primed and ready.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I was watching the 2009 semi Bulls v Crusaders and I saw Spies dominating McCaw,Read,Waldrom what ever happened to the guy ? He was so good and was the perfect specimen now i don't even see him mentioned for South Africa.
ANyway about this game Du Plessis is going to be battered again and the next game the hooker is going to be benched but he will keep playing forever, surely Malherbe has to start here. Your away to a dominant Pumas pack which will be fired up at home, and Argentina will cause problems up top if Du Plessis plays the way he did last time. I still think the Boks will win by 15 but it will be made much harder having to carry Jannie around everywhere.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I was watching the 2009 semi Bulls v Crusaders and I saw Spies dominating McCaw,Read,Waldrom what ever happened to the guy ? He was so good and was the perfect specimen now i don't even see him mentioned for South Africa.

He has been injured for a while now.

He played the warm-up game in the beginning of the year for the bulls, but then torn his bicep or something. And since then he has been on the injury list. He and Arno Botha has been sidelined for nearly the whole year, as well as last year.

ANyway about this game Du Plessis is going to be battered again and the next game the hooker is going to be benched but he will keep playing forever, surely Malherbe has to start here. Your away to a dominant Pumas pack which will be fired up at home, and Argentina will cause problems up top if Du Plessis plays the way he did last time. I still think the Boks will win by 15 but it will be made much harder having to carry Jannie around everywhere.

HM is doing the exact same thing he has done with Etzebeth now with Malherbe. It's not a good idea to start a guy coming back from injury, and rather easing him back into the squad. The extra luxury of playing prop, is that you can swap during the test, so I guess we'll have to wait and see if Jannie comes off after 30 minutes or the first scrum he's dominated.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Malherbe needed to start, yes. I don't rate Jannie even our 4rth best TH at this stage (in the scrum) and ITO general play he is probably at the bottom of the list and it has been pretty clear he is either tired or done for a while now. I don't know why our selectors thought that getting dominated at SR level (even by Aussie scrums) won't mean getting dominated at test level. Redelinghuys and Malherbe were our clear best TH's and we have better overseas as well. But, we in SA bow down to the all-important 'number of caps'.

Okay, so that last sentence was a bit unfair; HM has brought in a load of new frsh faces. We're just taking overly long with the props IMO.

Scrum success rates below (Lions and Stormers tops):

[TABLE="class: colchart horizontal, width: 610"]
[TR="class: team-150"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-63"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Lions[/TD]
[TD]91.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-99"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Stormers[/TD]
[TD]89.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-250"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Reds[/TD]
[TD]88.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-97"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Bulls[/TD]
[TD]88.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-96"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Crusaders[/TD]
[TD]88.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-12"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Rebels[/TD]
[TD]87.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-94"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Hurricanes[/TD]
[TD]87.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-91"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Chiefs[/TD]
[TD]86.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-98"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Sharks[/TD]
[TD]86.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-73"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Force[/TD]
[TD]86.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-200"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Waratahs[/TD]
[TD]85.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-93"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Blues[/TD]
[TD]84.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-74"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Cheetahs[/TD]
[TD]84.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-95"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Highlanders[/TD]
[TD]83.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-150"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Brumbies[/TD]
[TD]75.0
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[TRF_heineken]

Malherbe needed to start, yes. I don't rate Jannie even our 4rth best TH at this stage (in the scrum) and ITO general play he is probably at the bottom of the list and it has been pretty clear he is either tired or done for a while now. I don't know why our selectors thought that getting dominated at SR level (even by Aussie scrums) won't mean getting dominated at test level. Redelinghuys and Malherbe were our clear best TH's and we have better overseas as well. But, we in SA bow down to the all-important 'number of caps'.

Okay, so that last sentence was a bit unfair; HM has brought in a load of new frsh faces. We're just taking overly long with the props IMO.

Scrum success rates below (Lions and Stormers tops):

[TABLE="class: colchart horizontal, width: 610"]
[TR="class: team-150"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-63"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Lions[/TD]
[TD]91.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-99"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Stormers[/TD]
[TD]89.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-250"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Reds[/TD]
[TD]88.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-97"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Bulls[/TD]
[TD]88.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-96"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Crusaders[/TD]
[TD]88.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-12"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Rebels[/TD]
[TD]87.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-94"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Hurricanes[/TD]
[TD]87.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-91"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Chiefs[/TD]
[TD]86.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-98"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Sharks[/TD]
[TD]86.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-73"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Force[/TD]
[TD]86.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-200"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Waratahs[/TD]
[TD]85.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-93"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Blues[/TD]
[TD]84.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-74"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Cheetahs[/TD]
[TD]84.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-95"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Highlanders[/TD]
[TD]83.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: team-150"]
[TD="align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD]Brumbies[/TD]
[TD]75.0
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

That table must however not be read with just that stat. The Bulls for example might be 4th best with success. But they were the most penalised team at scrums for the tournament. So while they had an 88% success rate, it doesn't show the amount of penalties they conceded before the scrum was completed.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Hopefully South Africa but some points on Argentina, not picked the best form players but have a good enough side to do some damage.

 

[Tony Manx]

Looking for a big performance from the Saffers if they are going to pose any sort of challenge to the AB's.

PS As it now seems obligatory for every TV station to employ women interview players....I cannot wait to the see the Argentinian Lady tonight!!!

 

[Jaguares]

After the NZ's beating against Aussies I have much fear of this game. Boks are as angry as the ABs...

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

what time is the kick off in uk time ? btw really happy to move up to 7 in the fantasy after the poor week last week

 

[Tony Manx]

what time is the kick off in uk time ? btw really happy to move up to 7 in the fantasy after the poor week last week

It is about to start..................I expect that the Saffers will win by at least 15 and maybe a lot more and need to if they are to be really seen as up there with the AB's as potential winners of this competition but would like to see the Argies do better than that!!

 

[Jaguares]

I'm very afraid! After I bet on theWallabies, I wouldn't bet on the Pumas...

 

[Tony Manx]

I'm very afraid! After I bet on theWallabies, I wouldn't bet on the Pumas...

I think you have saved your money my man!!!

 

[Imagine]

And it begins. Let's go Bokke!!!

 

[Tony Manx]

Bosch...the Saffers secret weapon!! Why kick that?!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

My question is how Walsh can penalise the South African scrum there when the tight head for Argentina just stood straight up, appalling.

 

[Tony Manx]

Good start by the Argies and the Saffers have to withstand this barrage and take it from there..........was going to say they were worth their lead but just equalised!