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2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

Over the past year n a bit? Easily.

Couldn't disagree more.

I suspect part of the reason Fraser is so hyped is because he isn't playing most of the time due to injury.
Familiarity breeds contempt and all that - only in reverse.

He's good, better than Wallace by a stretch, but he isn't that good.
 
But then neither is Kvesic, and I'd say to a bigger extent.

Fraser playing as part of a very good pack probably helps this mind, but I still think Fraser is on better form than Kvesic.
If Kvesic was playing how he did pre-Gloucester then I'd say he was a step above Fraser, mind.
 
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. Vunipola

Couldn't disagree more.

I suspect part of the reason Fraser is so hyped is because he isn't playing most of the time due to injury.
Familiarity breeds contempt and all that - only in reverse.

He's good, better than Wallace by a stretch, but he isn't that good.

What would it take to get you to admit that Haskell, and for that matter others too but especially Haskell, is playing better rugby at present than Kvesic?
 
...For me to watch the rugby they've played and come to the conclusion that Haskell would make for a better international openside than Kvesic.
 
Kvesic has been in really good form this season though. Like, really good form. I guess that some people still have a view coming from his performances from last season. He's gone up a level this season. Probably because he's working with Fisher.

A few comments from Shedweb, in relation to him getting a new contract:

Dunno if anybody watched the Leicester game closely and focussed on Kev - he was awesome. He was in Freddie's face right from the start. At the very first breakdown, where Billy gave away a penalty, Kev was on top of Freddie and let him know he was there. He was rattled too! Leicester also clearly had a plan to try and keep him away from the breakdown, which Wiggy spotted! When a team focuses on one player like that he is clearly a bit special.

As I said a few weeks back, this guy is absolutely critical to the way we must play. When he isn't on the field, our competitiveness at the breakdown drops.

Great news again, I've been impressed this year with Kev and you can really see the difference he makes. Think he's only going to get better too over the season as he works more and more with Fisher. As Mackem says, he is key to the future and the success we want to see.

Fantastic news and he has been in outstanding form this season, which no doubt a stronger front 5 and the presence of the Lord has helped. This news is only tinged by the frankly farcical news that he is to be dropped from the EPS!

Brilliant news, he seems to be far more settled and getting better each game.

It certainly is good news. I think he's getting better, and will continue to do so. If England don't want him, I think i'll adopt him so he can play for Scotland
 
You see I watch Fraiser play and I watch Kvesic play and I can't bring myself to rate Fraiser higher. They're both good young back rows, but Kvesic has an abrasive, hard hitting quality I don't see in Fraiser.

Haskell is playing better than both though. Maybe a Wuss era Kvesic would push him but IMO Hask should be starting for England.
 
Over the last 18 months Fraser hasn't been playing. At the same time Kvesic was playing in the most pathetic pack last year. Overall they aren't actually that similar though both being seen as fetchers, Kvesic is alot stronger over the ball and you see him making a tackle and then trying to get on the ball by himself. Fraser makes more tackles, and in my opinion is a better tackler, and he will wait for someone else to make a tackle then will jump onto the ball to steal or slow it down.
Carrying- Kvesic by a long way, Fraser hardly ever gets on the ball unless it frops to the ground.
Tackle- Fraser makes more tackles than Kvesic and I think is better than him at just tackling
Over the ball- I think Kvesic is actually stronger on the ball, Fraser is very good at noticing an opportunity but I would still give it to Kvesic.
 
Shedweb is notably not biased in any way.

Haskell should definitely be starting for England.
 
It's not like we've seen Kvesic and Haskell play for England at the same time or anything... or seen Kvesic be outstanding for England in every game he's played despite supposedly being in bad club form.

Kvesic and Hask would both be in the EPS if I was selecting. As would Fraser - dependent on form over a period free from injury.

I'd probably even start Hask at 6 and have Kvesic on the bench - I'm not a fan of dropping in new guys unless it's absolutely critical... drip feeding players experience from the bench is the best way IMO.
 
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Shedweb is notably not biased in any way.

Haskell should definitely be starting for England.
When a player is not playing well, Shedweb makes it known.

You should have seen the stick that Burns and Morgan received last year. In fact, that the vast majority of the team received.
 
I've always admitted that Kvesic has a higher ceiling than haskell but I don't think for one moment that the way to make the player realise that ceiling is to throw them in at the international level before they show their best form - this is why I disagreed with Burns being first choice 10 over in New-Zealand as a way of 'forcing' him into some semblance of form, and it's exactly why I don't think Kvesic should be our first choice 7 here and now.

You've made the point that hes getting through a large amount of work - tackles for example - but frankly, the reason we have high expectations of him is not because he could make 30 tackles, it's for the other stuff which traditional 7's do which, either through Gloucesters fault or his own, we're not seeing all that much of. If it's a tackling openside we want, why look to Kvesic when we have the likes of Robshaw who can also carry, be a link-man between backs and forwards, and lead the team effectively. If this is the basis for which you'd pick an openside, why look beyond Haskell who is tackling most opposition back behind the gain-line, jackling ball, and carrying well ( I don't believe that stat about Haskells metres made to be honest)

It just doesn't add up - and as I've said, you can't, CAN'T pick someone at openside on the basis of potential alone.
 
It's not like we've seen Kvesic and Haskell play for England at the same time or anything... or seen Kvesic be outstanding for England in every game he's played despite supposedly being in bad club form.

Kvesic and Hask would both be in the EPS if I was selecting.

I'd probably even start Hask at 6 and have Kvesic on the bench - I'm not a fan of dropping in new guys unless it's absolutely critical... drip feeding players experience from the bench is the best way IMO.

I detect sarcasm in that opening statement...

I completely agree on your second point though.
 
or seen Kvesic be outstanding for England in every game he's played despite supposedly being in bad club form.
We literally haven't, though.
Kvesic got capped when he was at Worcester (or, at least, the summer between Wuss an Glaws) and he was in excellent form at Worcester.
 
George Kruis? What?

Squads up on England Rugby . Com.
Can't post it here as I'm at work.

Only two props announced on each side. Suggests the theory that a few more players will be added is correct.

Clark is indeed in for Kvesic. Myler in and no Burns or Cips.
 
Does a saxons game vs a b-side club team really count as an international game?

I'll concede that, but I still don't get the hype.
 
England Senior Squad (33)
Loose-head props
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Tight-head props
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Locks
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Back rows
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Scrum halves
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Fly halves
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Centres
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Back threes
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)

No Kitchener annoys me Kruis is very good but Lawes launchbury and attwood are similar to him.
 
Is he though?

The release notes the squad will be updates at 8pm on Sunday so I guess that's when any injury cover will come in. Slade probably be part of that and hopefully some props.

Very meh squad. Only really positive is Roko in and Ashton finally gone.

Interesting to note that Pennell is listed as injured not dropped.
 
Gotten really ****** now that Kitchener is left out what does he have to do?

well at least he is def with Leicester then.
 

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