[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (1st Test)

[ratsapprentice]

Can't agree with Yarde playing badly at all.

Very physical in defence and when he had the ball.
Didn't get very much opportunity.

May looked much improved - a couple of errors, but I think he now understands how he has to change his game in test rugby.

Talking of cipriani and that 'tackle' on him... I thought the irb had issued strict guidance to cut down on no armed tackles? So including instances like that where the player launches headfirst at the guys legs! Seen some penalties from it this season in super rugby.

I though that in real time too... slo-mo showed it was fine - legitimate attempt to wrap - Cipriani tried to hurdle it.

 

[goodNumber10]

Talking of cipriani and that 'tackle' on him... I thought the irb had issued strict guidance to cut down on no armed tackles? So including instances like that where the player launches headfirst at the guys legs! Seen some penalties from it this season in super rugby.

I think the tackle was ok... (The Conrad one right?). Think Cip's jumped into it and that made it look worse.

I hate seeing people hurdle tackles.

 

[Peat]

Smith certainly had the arms out for the wrap, just it never happened.

 

[Big Ewis]

it's interesting how this game has benefited no one ultimately, and although there are good elements from both cheering sides, this match turns out to be a partypooper for both parties.
NZ cannot be happy with only just beating a weakened England side at home on one hand; and on the other, yes England came close but, therefor, they obviously can't be satisfied with giving it away in the waning moments and will feel terrible remorse.

 

[TheSaffycen]

The difference between Yarde and Ashton - Ashton's probably not going to get any better. He's played a lot of rugby, he's got solid test experience, he's had a huge run of uninterrupted game time. It's fair to say we know what he can do and it is an offering with some serious flaws and no huge plus points in this current set-up. Yarde almost definitely will get better. He's a young man, he's learning the game. His flaws are more excusable.

He also brings more plus points. He has better athleticism and physicality. He's a lot less worrying as a guy to mark Savea.

That's the difference. Yarde has more future and, all form being even, brings more to the table. He was in very good form for London Irish. So far that hasn't translated into good performances against non-Argentine opposition, but we have hope. Very few people have hope for Ashton.

Well yes he has a hell of a lot of potential, but (to me) he isn't that he has anything that shows international quality. Like when ASHTON first came on the scene(though ages where different) he had this support play that really made you think wow he has an international edge. Or Launchbury who had this incredible athletic and complete game which said that he is international class. Yarde, he is just physical and quite fast, but too me nothing more, and you need something else at test level. As i say again maybe he will show me something next week and i guess if Ashton got like 17 test to get dropped then May and Yarde deserve the same(until Wade comes in)

 

[Big Ewis]

Stats:





Interesting to look at the statistical dominance from England, although it's just stats. The Attacking section especially is very much to England's advantage.

France had similar stats, and it's interesting to see all those defenders beaten from Eng's part, because it means although the AB's have missed 22 tackles, a high number, they haven't conceded the slightest try. This testifies, and we've seen it in the game also, of NZ's excellent defensive repositioning. Great organization, timing and no panic when under threat.

 

[kesh]

Lancaster now has massive selection headaches, which of course are better than having no options at all, but might put his team management skills to the test. A few of the players might not appreciate getting dropped after good performances (which would of course indicate they don't have the temperament to play for England - but not everybody can be a selfless hero). It's getting to the point where very good players might not even get into the EPS next season.

It's going to leave those players coming in which difficult selection issues, as Wood was saying between club and country down the line. Haskell, Parling, Webber, Morgon, Burns, have potentially played themselves in and who knows, could be long term. Losing your starting berth due to scheduling issues isn't exactly going to help team moral. Suppose Burt could take the easy option and drop them all using the excuse that they didn't win.

 

[Peat]

You may be right. He's a good athletic specimen, but not an outstanding one for test level, and I'll be honest I didn't have down as the future until a season ago. He has been on fire for a poor London Irish though... flat track bully or evidence of top class predatory instincts? Wade has an obvious x factor, May is very evasive as well, Roko outpowers him, Anthony Watson is probably a better athlete, Nowell brings a full back's game and a nice brain... be interesting to see how it shakes out.

For what it's worth, if Lancaster could make Ashton's support lines work again, I'd welcome him back with open arms - and so would everyone else. Just seems unlikely it's gonna happen.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Very few people predicted that Joe Launchbury was going to become one of our most important players.

It's going to leave those players coming in which difficult selection issues, as Wood was saying between club and country down the line. Haskell, Parling, Webber, Morgon, Burns, have potentially played themselves in and who knows, could be long term. Losing your starting berth due to scheduling issues isn't exactly going to help team moral. Suppose Burt could take the easy option and drop them all using the excuse that they didn't win.

At the end of the day... if any player loses their place it's because the coach thinks their replacement is better than they are.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Well that's the thing, the ball didn't go to Yarde alot and i thin the same would happen with Ashton. Unless you have Brown running everything back and Ashton work off him he isn't going to have the broken field he loves to run lines through, and Yarde might even look better in an open game scenario with his powerful running. Look i'm happy for Yarde to start, but i don't think that a year out from the world cup we should say well you know players are not at the standard yet and be fine with it, but then players who have been around for a while say why are his performances sub par ? If we want too win the world cup it doesn't matter if they have 5 caps or 50 we have to look at the performance and not the player.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The ball went to him, but he was often marked - on those occasions he showed good strength in contact and presented the ball.

I don't agree his his performance was sub-par...

 

[goodNumber10]

I don't agree his his performance was sub-par...

Agreed, i thought he was soldi without being unspectacular, and 14 is a difficult side to play - he played left previously for England. He got isolated and turned once. don't think any of our wingers would have been in a different position to Yarde today, and his pace did enough to help us stop the try.

ultimatley the winning try was scored on the other side from a May mistake (that is a bit harsh because it was a 2 on 1 and he just commited himself - i'd have preferred he'd mirrored up on smith and let youngs do his job).

The biggest issue for me today is we created ample try scoring opportunities, but finished none, and also that all our real line breaks came deep in our own half or entering their territory.

 

[Peat]

Very few people predicted that Joe Launchbury was going to become one of our most important players.

You don't talk to the same people I do - big buzz around him from when he was 19, his performances for Wasps and at the JWC were very impressive.

 

[j'nuh]

Can't agree with Yarde playing badly at all.

Very physical in defence and when he had the ball.
Didn't get very much opportunity.

May looked much improved - a couple of errors, but I think he now understands how he has to change his game in test rugby.



I though that in real time too... slo-mo showed it was fine - legitimate attempt to wrap - Cipriani tried to hurdle it.

Funnily enough, he just actually played a lot more like he would for his club today, than he did in the Six Nations. All that sideways running for England in the Six Nations, and yet I never, ever, ever see him do that for Gloucester, apart from in backline moves from set pieces.

I wonder whether May was a little starstruck in the Six Nations. I think he took the management's advice to go out and attack way too much to heart. He tried pulling off big plays when he didn't have to. He's got all the quality to be a top international.

Agreed, i thought he was soldi without being unspectacular, and 14 is a difficult side to play - he played left previously for England. He got isolated and turned once. don't think any of our wingers would have been in a different position to Yarde today, and his pace did enough to help us stop the try.

ultimatley the winning try was scored on the other side from a May mistake (that is a bit harsh because it was a 2 on 1 and he just commited himself - i'd have preferred he'd mirrored up on smith and let youngs do his job).

The biggest issue for me today is we created ample try scoring opportunities, but finished none, and also that all our real line breaks came deep in our own half or entering their territory.

It was not a May mistake. There was absolutely nothing he could have done to stop that try. Drift and Ben Smith steps inside. Go for Ben Smith, and Conrad Smith is in, as happened. The only way that move was ever going to be stopped, is if May nailed Ben Smith fast enough, which is what he tried to do. The fault really lies with the forwards, who as a group left the blindside inadequately protected.

 

[ratsapprentice]

You don't talk to the same people I do - big buzz around him from when he was 19, his performances for Wasps and at the JWC were very impressive.

Meh... I hadn't really heard anyone clamoring for his involvement until he had played 2-3 tests.
Even after his role in the SA mid-week games.

Ben Youngs... never again.

- Can't pass
- Can't tackle

 

[goodNumber10]

It was not a May mistake. There was absolutely nothing he could have done to stop that try. Drift and Ben Smith steps inside. Go for Ben Smith, and Conrad Smith is in, as happened. The only way that move was ever going to be stopped, is if May nailed Ben Smith fast enough, which is what he tried to do. The fault really lies with the forwards, who as a group left the blindside inadequately protected.

That's pretty much what i said. Youngs should have been there.

 

[j'nuh]

Meh... I hadn't really heard anyone clamoring for his involvement until he had played 2-3 tests.

Ben Youngs... never again.

- Can't pass
- Can't tackle

It's really sad, when you think back to how good he was back around 2010. He's shown he has some kind of ability in the past... has he had it coached out of him? Would it benefit him to join a new team, one which may rekindle those abilities?

 

[ratsapprentice]

How do you coach passing out of someone?


Also... I've now heard at least 2 or 3 people state that Eastmond's pass after his break was "poor".
The pass was perfectly weighted and as flat as can be - if it was a foot ahead it would have been forward, a foot behind and would have hit the ground.
Mike Brown overran it.

 

[exeter]

Good point. Alternatively, Farrell and Vunipola recently played two huge finals and came off injured/cramped. Perhaps if they're not 100pc, Lancaster could use that as a reason to play Burns and Morgan (more likely in the case of Morgan). Twelvetrees and Hartley have been struggling with injury, so there's two more excuses. Bit more difficult with Wood and Lawes coming in, but I think they're two of our most important players.

 

[exeter]

Youngs was picked ahead of Care for the Lions. Quite a few Lions players went on to have bad injuries or severe drops in form - Youngs was in the latter camp. Robshaw on the other hand was rested during the summer and has had a cracking season.