[2014 Mid-Year Tests] Ireland

[Peat]

This board's entertainment is more important than your studies.

Lot of lads who are either abroad or going abroad in that emerging squad. Not sure whether they'll go that route - and if they do, surely James Hart should tour. Particularly as he can cover fly-half (supposedly) and James McKinney isn't exactly what you want. Don't think Ricky Andrew is either. You could probably cut all of the outgoing/foreign based lads though - Black or Warwick for Court, Dougall for Gilsenan, McCloskey and Allen for Sheridan and Griffin and anyone for McKinney. Carty to be non-glib. Nagle would be the only difficult one...

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Lads Jordi Murphy has done nothing to deserve travelling. Not saying TOD has either because his form has been average since Ireland scapegoated him but is better than Murphy. Flankers that will go are Henry and Ruddock deservingly. D. Ryan is a possibility or use Henderson as 6 as locks are well stocked.
Keatley will be available to tour if required and certainly deserves to be 2nd choice based on form although hasn't it been said already Sexton won't tour due to his wife giving birth and he has played too much

Keatley should start, neck and neck between TO'D and Murphy though with both of them rarely pushing the boundaries of averageness in the last few months and lack of alternatives. I haven't have a clue what you mean by 'scapegoated'.

 

[big ginger 8]

This board's entertainment is more important than your studies.

Lot of lads who are either abroad or going abroad in that emerging squad. Not sure whether they'll go that route - and if they do, surely James Hart should tour. Particularly as he can cover fly-half (supposedly) and James McKinney isn't exactly what you want. Don't think Ricky Andrew is either. You could probably cut all of the outgoing/foreign based lads though - Black or Warwick for Court, Dougall for Gilsenan, McCloskey and Allen for Sheridan and Griffin and anyone for McKinney. Carty to be non-glib. Nagle would be the only difficult one...

Yeah those two would be in my squad.

I suppose you are right about the players playing abroad. Easy enough to drop Court from it and I had been thinking of having McCloskey in for Sheridan anyway so yeah I'd probably have him. I'd still take Hart though and in my mind taking Doughall would be stupid. He's a good enough player for Munster but Gilsenan could offer so much more and I don't think his search for gametime should mean he doesn't get picked.

 

[Feicarsinn]

James Hart is savage. I want him at Leinster next year.

 

[profitius]

I'd have Darragh Leader ahead of Jones. That would be my bolter. I think he is one of those talents coming in under the radar although people are noticing him now.
Keatley has been the second best 10 this year. PJ still blows hot and cold. Same with JJ. I don't see the point of Sexton going. Keatley can also play 12 and 15 so it gives the coach flexibility.
Marmion should tour. No more Boss, please.
Copeland should go. I think Coughlan has been very unlucky not to get capped but Schmidt can't cap him for the sake of it. Himself and Wilson fall a bit short.
Ruddock is a cert. He should get some gametime.
Marshall, Cave and Henshaw the centers. All getting a game there.


Madigan shouldn't be an asses roar of the Irish team. I was bigging him up for years but his form has falling off a cliff and can't get ahead of Gopperth.
Dave Foley is probably too light for Plumtree's liking. I think he prefers the heavier locks.
Varley isn't good enough IMO. His darts are not great and he isn't the most mobile.
Agree that TOD and Jordi have been very average.
SOB and Donnacha Ryan should be ordered to stay at home and be 100% for the start of the season.
Ah You. I hope not. Have some Irish player like john Ryan or Loughney instead.

 

[munstermuffin]

@BG8 he was dropped for a teams bad defensive performance according to coaching. Despite fact he missed 0 tackles and wasn't at fault for anything. And didn't even get a sniff of getting back in so I'd term it scapegoating you can call it what you like but what I've said regards his dropping is 100% fact. And his form suffered since. I still think he's ahead of Murphy who's yet to convince me. Ruddock has totally outshined him by a mile and of the 3 deserves it most.
Back 3 is interesting. Earls, Zebo, Trimble and Bowe are all playing super stuff so will D. Kearney retain his shirt? And 15 is an area of will we see Henshaw or someone play there at some stage

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd have Darragh Leader ahead of Jones. That would be my bolter. I think he is one of those talents coming in under the radar although people are noticing him now.
Keatley has been the second best 10 this year. PJ still blows hot and cold. Same with JJ. I don't see the point of Sexton going. Keatley can also play 12 and 15 so it gives the coach flexibility.
Marmion should tour. No more Boss, please.
Copeland should go. I think Coughlan has been very unlucky not to get capped but Schmidt can't cap him for the sake of it. Himself and Wilson fall a bit short.
Ruddock is a cert. He should get some gametime.
Marshall, Cave and Henshaw the centers. All getting a game there.


Madigan shouldn't be an asses roar of the Irish team. I was bigging him up for years but his form has falling off a cliff and can't get ahead of Gopperth.
Dave Foley is probably too light for Plumtree's liking. I think he prefers the heavier locks.
Varley isn't good enough IMO. His darts are not great and he isn't the most mobile.
Agree that TOD and Jordi have been very average.
SOB and Donnacha Ryan should be ordered to stay at home and be 100% for the start of the season.
Ah You. I hope not. Have some Irish player like john Ryan or Loughney instead.

On this a few points I'd say.
100% agree with Keatley and could be an option at 12 in way we use JJ and Keatley could work with a Sexton Keatley combo with 20 or so left. It's hugely effective in Munster games.
I agree Coughlan is probably a bit old but his form has been superb this year and brilliant heart.

Agreed on Madigan.
Foley is heavier than you think but not ready for this.
Varley has had a superb season and has best darts this year of all Irish 2's so that says a lot for others. Not saying he should tour but he'd certainly merit his inclusion if included but competition is fierce.
I like John Ryan as a lad, but I'd cringe see him play tight head at Cork Con never mind Ireland

 

[Peat]

I'm pretty baffled by this idea that Jackson has blown hot and cold. Can't say I've seen it.

Hadn't realised Foley was that light! That's nothing for a modern lock, can he bulk up any more?

 

[profitius]

I'm pretty baffled by this idea that Jackson has blown hot and cold. Can't say I've seen it.

Hadn't realised Foley was that light! That's nothing for a modern lock, can he bulk up any more?

For instance against Leinster he failed to make touch a few times. That went unnoticed but it wouldn't at international level.

Foley isn't that lightweight but he is lighter than average for international rugby. I'm sure a big part of Toners inclusion is his 125kg weight. Plumtree is a NZer who has been schooled in SA also.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm pretty baffled by this idea that Jackson has blown hot and cold. Can't say I've seen it.

Hadn't realised Foley was that light! That's nothing for a modern lock, can he bulk up any more?

I think it's more of a case of people saying he's played better than he actually has in a lot of cases, last week was a prime example.

 

[munstermuffin]

I wouldn't say Jackson is hot/cold just it's Keatley is the form 10 at this stage. There is very little between 4/5 of them and it's all about who's playing well

Foley is nowhere near ready but there all these are roughly between 17 and 18stone.
Dave Foley, POC, Henderson, Tuohy, Craig Clarke and McCarthy.
So I don't get how people say he's light? He's still bulking and filling but not light. Toner might be heavier as he's a big tree

 

[Peat]

Tuohy and Clarke are (allegedly) nearer 18 than 17, Henderson and McCarthy are over 18, and POC is a freak. A quick look through the reported weights of international locks would say that even the lighter locks are over 17 and a half, a bit over 18 is around the norm/average, and 19 stone is heavy. 17 stone is definitely light on that scale.

Haven't really watch enough of Keatley to comment but for my money, Jackson has been very good all season with only little glitches. If Keatley has done enough to take the shirt off of him, then he has done incredibly well.

 

[munstermuffin]

Tuohy and Clarke are (allegedly) nearer 18 than 17, Henderson and McCarthy are over 18, and POC is a freak. A quick look through the reported weights of international locks would say that even the lighter locks are over 17 and a half, a bit over 18 is around the norm/average, and 19 stone is heavy. 17 stone is definitely light on that scale.

Haven't really watch enough of Keatley to comment but for my money, Jackson has been very good all season with only little glitches. If Keatley has done enough to take the shirt off of him, then he has done incredibly well.

Foley is 17stone 2 POC is 17 stone 4.
Keatley has been on top form since January and really settled in to shirt now. Also when he moves to 12 he's been excellent too. I think at moment he offers a bit more than Jackson but as I said he's form player now but competition is immense.

 

[Conal]

Foley is 17stone 2 POC is 17 stone 4.
Keatley has been on top form since January and really settled in to shirt now. Also when he moves to 12 he's been excellent too. I think at moment he offers a bit more than Jackson but as I said he's form player now but competition is immense.

any merit in jackson ten and keatly 12 for one half on tour?

 

[big ginger 8]

@BG8 he was dropped for a teams bad defensive performance according to coaching. Despite fact he missed 0 tackles and wasn't at fault for anything. And didn't even get a sniff of getting back in so I'd term it scapegoating you can call it what you like but what I've said regards his dropping is 100% fact. And his form suffered since. I still think he's ahead of Murphy who's yet to convince me. Ruddock has totally outshined him by a mile and of the 3 deserves it most.
Back 3 is interesting. Earls, Zebo, Trimble and Bowe are all playing super stuff so will D. Kearney retain his shirt? And 15 is an area of will we see Henshaw or someone play there at some stage

I cannot find or remember any public comments about his defense so anyway you put it he hasn't been scapegoated. No one said TO'D is the reason we ****ed this up. It wan't following a poor preformance from the team. He was dropped not scapegoated and the fact is his form has suffered. He needs to recover it first.

 

[profitius]

any merit in jackson ten and keatly 12 for one half on tour?

Thats what I'd like to see. Both share the responsibility.

 

[munstermuffin]

I cannot find or remember any public comments about his defense so anyway you put it he hasn't been scapegoated. No one said TO'D is the reason we ****ed this up. It wan't following a poor preformance from the team. He was dropped not scapegoated and the fact is his form has suffered. He needs to recover it first.

No he wasn't singled out but the team needed change due to it and he was only change. That's why a lot of Munster were upset. And why TOD himself has stated he felt hurt from it. That's the facts. It was said about defense by Les Kiss. But as I said a lot here feel he was scapegoated you mightn't agree but the facts of what happened are there and everyone can judge for themselves.
On his form he's been playing well last 3 weeks. Not at his tip top best but very good none the less.

 

[munstermuffin]

any merit in jackson ten and keatly 12 for one half on tour?

Certainly wouldn't be wasteful trying it. Could be very effective and something I thought would be right down Schmidts way

 

[Feicarsinn]

Schmidt out.

 

[munstermuffin]

Schmidt out.

If it's regards TOD point no blame at Schmidt as it's collective and I wouldn't argue TOD has lost form but they're facts guess nobody up in Leinster accepts it. But that's what Kiss said. It's nothing to do with Leinster/Jordi Murphy as even if it was a Munster man that took his place it'd be same thing.

If it comment I made to Conal then well I don't know but would you not agree Schmidt would possibly love that option of 2 play makers at 10&12 for last 30. D'Arcy offers something different but in last year has been performing more defensively and not as effective on attack. He's playing superbly and not saying he should be dropped but like Munster use JJ it could be great idea that Schmidt you'd think would excel more than Mannix in executing