[2014 Mid-Year Tests] Ireland

[Feicarsinn]

By position:

Props: James Cronin, Dave Kilcoyne, Jack McGrath, Martin Moore, Mike Ross

Hookers: Rory Best, Rob Herring, Damien Varley

Locks: Paul O'Connell, Devin Toner, Iain Henderson

Backrows: Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Jamie Heaslip, Rhys Ruddock, Jordi Murphy

Scrum Halves: Eoin Reddan, Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion

Out Halves: Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson

Centres: Darren Cave, Luke Marshall, Robbie Henshaw

Wings: Simon Zebo, Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Fergus McFadden

Fullbacks: Felix Jones, Rob Kearney

By Province/Club:

Leinster: 10
Ulster: 9
Munster: 8
Connacht: 2
Racing Metro: 1

Lots of new players coming into the fold. I'd imagine a number of guys who had long seasons (Cian Healy, Sean Cronin, Gordon D'arcy, etc.) have been given the summer off, while this should be a good chance for the likes of Rhys Ruddock, Darren Cave and Simon Zebo to make their mark on the squad.

In terms of competition I think the front row is the place where there's going to be the most going on. Dave Kilcoyne will be gunning to try and retake his spot in the squad over Jack, while James Cronin isn't just there to make up the numbers. Rob Herring has been impressive for a couple of years now, and while we're well stocked for 2's, he can lay down a real marker. Finally, I think Martin Moore is finally pulling ahead of Mike Ross. Hopefully he can cement that in Argentina.

Interesting to look at the composition of the second row. Clearly Henderson's future is there for Ireland, at least if this squad is anything to go on.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Given the meteoric rise of Martin Moore, it's easy to overlook the improvements James Cronin has made to his game this season. He deservedly gets his first call up.

While I don't agree with qualifying for a country through residency, Robbie Diack has been here 6 years. It's fair to say that he's committed to Irish rugby, otherwise he'd have been gone a few years ago.

 

[Feicarsinn]

For the craic, here's a team made up of players not travelling for whatever reason:

15) Luke Fitzgerald
14) Tommy Bowe
13) Eoin Griffin
12) Gordon D'arcy
11) Dave Kearney
10) Ian Keatley
9) James Hart

8) Robin Copeland
7) Peter O'Mahony
6) Sean O'Brien
5) Mike McCarthy
4) Donnacha Ryan
3) Stephen Archer
2) Sean Cronin
1) Cian Healy

We've put out worse sides than that before.

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

Thoughts on squad :

-Good to see Cronin in there, he's looked promising and Healy deserves a rest. Wish we had someone to call up instead of Mike Ross who looks done in my opinion.
- Cronin given a rest or was it because of his injury on Saturday? I hope we see Herring start on the bench but Varley has been doing pretty well
- No surprises at lock. Glad McCarthy isn't in, just isn't up to it any more and we don't need him
- Bit disappointed he went for Diack ahead of Copeland but I don't know what Copeland's form is like and Diack has looked pretty sharp for us. Hopefully Ruddock gets the start at 6 which he deserves
- Very happy to see Marmion in and I hope he gets on the bench ahead of Reddan
- Surprised they took Johnny ahead of Madigan. Wouldn't of minded Johnny getting the summer off and it would of meant Jackson would of been starting
- Showing good trust in Marshall not to bring D'Arcy. I would say we will she Cave play a test at 12 as well. D'Arcy deserves his rest.
- Wouldn't of brought McFadden or Jones. I can understand McFadden being in as he can cover 12 and is versatile but I would still prefer to have seen Bowe in. I don't think D. Kearney deserved to be dropped but it might be injury from Saturday?

 

[Feicarsinn]

-Good to see Cronin in there, he's looked promising and Healy deserves a rest. Wish we had someone to call up instead of Mike Ross who looks done in my opinion.

Do we have anyone better? I don't think he's done at this level by any means. Our scrum, with Rossy starting every game, was one of our real strengths during the 6 nations. He certainly didn't look out of place.

- Cronin given a rest or was it because of his injury on Saturday? I hope we see Herring start on the bench but Varley has been doing pretty well

Probably a bit of both. He needs a minor op by some accounts, but I would have left him at home anyway. He's had a very long season.

- No surprises at lock. Glad McCarthy isn't in, just isn't up to it any more and we don't need him

Harsh again. McCarthy has been one of our better performers this year. It took him a while to get up to pace, but I've been very happy with his first season in blue. He isn't flash, but he hits rucks hard, throws himself about and makes good tackles.

- Surprised they took Johnny ahead of Madigan. Wouldn't of minded Johnny getting the summer off and it would of meant Jackson would of been starting

Sexton wants to tour pretty desperately. Also, with the amount of time he misses what with playing abroad they probably need to send him to keep him involved. We also don't have a great deal of experience at 12 and 13, so it makes sense to bring an established 10.

- Wouldn't of brought McFadden or Jones. I can understand McFadden being in as he can cover 12 and is versatile but I would still prefer to have seen Bowe in. I don't think D. Kearney deserved to be dropped but it might be injury from Saturday?

McFadden gets a lot of flak in some corners, but he's a good winger, and certainly not out of place on the tour. With Zebo and Earls coming back in Dave had to make way unfortunately. Bowe is a bit of a strange one, aye.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Is this a 'proper Argentina' or like the one England played last year ? 3–32 and 26-51 weren't really tough matches to prove players. But with players like Yarde, Kvesic, Eastmond, Wade and co. it probably helped Lancaster have a proper look at them. I'm guessing that Schmidt will do the same thing with young/unproven players and it gives chances to test new combos under little pressure

 

[Peat]

I'm very disappointed for Dan Tuohy, who's probably missed a good five or so Ireland caps this year through injuries coming at the wrong time. If ever a man couldn't buy a break, its him.

The inclusion of Felix Jones in this squad is probably one of the better arguments to be made for Payne not playing at 13 from Ireland's PoV.

Really delighted for Rob Herring.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Is this a 'proper Argentina' or like the one England played last year ? 3–32 and 26-51 weren't really tough matches to prove players. But with players like Yarde, Kvesic, Eastmond, Wade and co. it probably helped Lancaster have a proper look at them. I'm guessing that Schmidt will do the same thing with young/unproven players and it gives chances to test new combos under little pressure

Probably the latter.

 

[Big Ewis]

Is this a 'proper Argentina' or like the one England played last year ? 3–32 and 26-51 weren't really tough matches to prove players. But with players like Yarde, Kvesic, Eastmond, Wade and co. it probably helped Lancaster have a proper look at them. I'm guessing that Schmidt will do the same thing with young/unproven players and it gives chances to test new combos under little pressure

they've been playing shhit sides for years now, and especially so since their participation in TRC. And given their shape right now, it's not like they can afford to field a good team in the summer tests AND prepare adequately for the "real deal" in August against the All-Blacks, and Springboks and co...
Most probably a shhit team, man. I don't know if they'll go back 50meters in the scrum though this time.

 

[Peat]

http://www.thescore.ie/schmidt-argentina-summer-madigan-1472600-May2014/ - some quotes from Schmidt.

 

[Jaguares]

Is this a 'proper Argentina' or like the one England played last year ? 3â€"32 and 26-51 weren't really tough matches to prove players. But with players like Yarde, Kvesic, Eastmond, Wade and co. it probably helped Lancaster have a proper look at them. I'm guessing that Schmidt will do the same thing with young/unproven players and it gives chances to test new combos under little pressure

Ireland going to play against our Pampas XV (Argentina A). The UAR has an agreement with the European clubs don't call their players for June's test matches, then we have to settle with the players we have available, which aren't the best. Ireland is the favorite as it brings many of their best players and should win both games as England did last year.

 

[big ginger 8]

Shoud be a good enough squad for what we want. Delighted for Marmion and think Cronin deserves it. I'm guessing the big reason Diack is there because we only have three locks.

I'm taking it that Cronin is injured which would mean Dundon and Byrne/ Tracey for the final.

I'd have liked Copeland to go as just in case Heaslip somehow gets injured we do need backup. However I'd say his poor discipline counted against him and Murphy is probably the backup 8 for this. Schmidt also isn't against putting Ruddock at 8.

IRM, I'm going to agree with Feic. McCarthy is hugely underrated, he was poor at the start of the year but really grew into his role. Everything he hits stays hit and he's a big part of our scrum and maul.

I'd have liked Bowe to go but I suppose it makes sense for him to be rested.

EDIT: Oh and no need for Jones, except possibly for Schmidt's thing in training of having full units.

Word is Payne might link up in Argentina as well to get used to systems but wouldn't that be against the rules?

 

[munstermuffin]

Must say I think he's got squad perfect. Delighted for Cronin and it's well deserved.
Only point I'd make is:
Our front row options for 1 and 2 are good with depth but 3 is a worry. Ross is nearly spent and we can't expect Moore to be alone for years as he will be worn down. Archers back is serious and well at that after Moore the quality drops.
Locks I'm presuming McCarthy will go if he survives Pro12 final. Otherwise happy but as said Tuohy unlucky but it's extremely competitive there.
Backrow all fair but I think Diack and J. Murphy will be replaced when SOB and POM back. I a big fan of TOD but his form has suffered and confidence gone. He still trains in Dublin with them as does Madigan.
9s. As expected.
10s Fair call. Some may be shocked by Madigan call but on form Keatley was ahead of him but with 2 PJ was always backing up.
Rest of back - Delighted Zebo back but shocked Bowe left out. But probably needs to watch injury. Shocked Felix going as he hasn't been great and Madigan/Keatley would offer more as well as been more versatile.

 

[Jaguares]

This is the Argentina's team that beat The Teros (Uruguay) last Saturday, most players are from Pampas XV (Argentina A), this is the likely team to face Ireland in June, no players from European teams, so Ireland should win 2 games as England last year.

Argentina:

1. Lucas Noguera Paz
2. Matías Cortese
3. Bruno Postiglioni
4. Lucas Ponce
5. Matías Alemanno
6. Javier Ortega Desio
7. Rodrigo Báez
8. Antonio Ahualli de Chazal
9. Tomás Cubelli (c)
10. Santiago González Iglesias
11. Tomás Carrió
12. Gabriel Ascárate
13. Jerónimo De la Fuente
14. Matías Orlando
15. Santiago Cordero.

Reserves:

16. Santiago Iglesias Valdéz
17. Julián Montoya
18. Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro
19. Tomás Lavanini
20. Lisandro Ahualli de Chazal
21. Felipe Ezcurra
22. Manuel Montero
23. Ramiro Moyano.

Head Coach: Daniel Hourcade.

 

[Big Ewis]

yep. It's like the summer Pumas gets worse and worse each year...it's bad France lost test 1 in 2012 over there, but that squad had real quality. The side facing England was just a joke in 2013 and it seems even more degraded if I'm not mistaken right now in '14.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Our front row options for 1 and 2 are good with depth but 3 is a worry. Ross is nearly spent and we can't expect Moore to be alone for years as he will be worn down. Archers back is serious and well at that after Moore the quality drops.

I'm not having a go by any means, but it was only a few months ago that Ross formed a vital part of an Irish pack that was outstanding, particularly at scrum time. He may not be able to go 80 minutes (or possibly 60) any more, but I have no fear that he can lock down the scrum off the bench if required, probably up until 2015. In the meantime Tadgh Furlong continues to look an excellent prospect and Nathan White will become qualified. We're not scraping the barrel.

Locks I'm presuming McCarthy will go if he survives Pro12 final. Otherwise happy but as said Tuohy unlucky but it's extremely competitive there.

Apparently Tuohy is being rested.

Backrow all fair but I think Diack and J. Murphy will be replaced when SOB and POM back. I a big fan of TOD but his form has suffered and confidence gone. He still trains in Dublin with them as does Madigan.

A lot has been made of O'Donnell's recent Irish involvement, or lack there of. I've seen some blame Schmidt for his post 6 nations form, saying that it is a direct result of being dropped from the Irish squad. For me that isn't good enough from a prospective Irish international, particularly in the back row where we're very competitive. If he can't pick himself up after being cut, then he can't complain about not being there. Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo and Dave Kilcoyne serve as excellent examples of how to bounce back.

10s Fair call. Some may be shocked by Madigan call but on form Keatley was ahead of him but with 2 PJ was always backing up. [\quote]

The Keatley-Madigan-Jackson thing is very interesting. Madigan is the most threatening, but has been useless this season largely. Keatley's form in the latter half of the season has been really impressive. I feel that Schmidt is going for Jackson as he offers the most continuity. He's well established in the Irish setup and for his province and has had a good season. Whilst rewarding for is great, I think on the balance of things PJ is the right guy to go with.

Rest of back - Delighted Zebo back but shocked Bowe left out. But probably needs to watch injury. Shocked Felix going as he hasn't been great and Madigan/Keatley would offer more as well as been more versatile.

Apparently Bowe is getting the summer off with an eye towards the World Cup next year. You'd imagine that it's going to be a pretty tough summer in 2015, so giving a few of the senior guys the summer off makes a lot of sense. It would have been good for him to get some time with the squad though. As for Jones, word is that Dave Kearney is looking at some cruciate damage. He probably would have toured as wing/fullback cover, but Jones is the next guy up who can play both spots.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm not having a go by any means, but it was only a few months ago that Ross formed a vital part of an Irish pack that was outstanding, particularly at scrum time. He may not be able to go 80 minutes (or possibly 60) any more, but I have no fear that he can lock down the scrum off the bench if required, probably up until 2015. In the meantime Tadgh Furlong continues to look an excellent prospect and Nathan White will become qualified. We're not scraping the barrel.



Apparently Tuohy is being rested.



A lot has been made of O'Donnell's recent Irish involvement, or lack there of. I've seen some blame Schmidt for his post 6 nations form, saying that it is a direct result of being dropped from the Irish squad. For me that isn't good enough from a prospective Irish international, particularly in the back row where we're very competitive. If he can't pick himself up after being cut, then he can't complain about not being there. Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo and Dave Kilcoyne serve as excellent examples of how to bounce back.

10s Fair call. Some may be shocked by Madigan call but on form Keatley was ahead of him but with 2 PJ was always backing up. [\quote]

The Keatley-Madigan-Jackson thing is very interesting. Madigan is the most threatening, but has been useless this season largely. Keatley's form in the latter half of the season has been really impressive. I feel that Schmidt is going for Jackson as he offers the most continuity. He's well established in the Irish setup and for his province and has had a good season. Whilst rewarding for is great, I think on the balance of things PJ is the right guy to go with.



Apparently Bowe is getting the summer off with an eye towards the World Cup next year. You'd imagine that it's going to be a pretty tough summer in 2015, so giving a few of the senior guys the summer off makes a lot of sense. It would have been good for him to get some time with the squad though. As for Jones, word is that Dave Kearney is looking at some cruciate damage. He probably would have toured as wing/fullback cover, but Jones is the next guy up who can play both spots.

Not critical of Ross or saying he's done more spent as in he's been over used as a result of playing full 80's against packs that can change it up after 60. No doubt he's still good enough. You mention others and hopefully they'll be good enough but until that's proven it's pointless.

Regards Tuohy, wasn't sure of his placing as he wasn't named as been rested along with Bowe Healy etc.

Not saying it's Schmidts fault regards TOD as he made a decision which a coach is entitled to do. It's TOD and his mental strength that's the issue here and I've no doubt he can bounce back.

No quibbles with what your saying about 10. But would have Keatley ahead of Madigan on form. Madigan played well last weekend but that wasn't at 10 let's remember. He's been average all season.

I wish D. Kearney best wishes with injury but I don't think he should've toured. Jones shouldn't either. Zebo, Earls and Henshaw easily cover 15. Bowe if there can too.

 

[Jaguares]

yep. It's like the summer Pumas gets worse and worse each year...it's bad France lost test 1 in 2012 over there, but that squad had real quality. The side facing England was just a joke in 2013 and it seems even more degraded if I'm not mistaken right now in '14.

Yeah, the problem is that we now have a very tough schedule. Before we played an average of 6 games a year, 3 games at home 3 games away (usually in Europe) but all games with our best players. So usually we've won 3 games and we've lost 3, a result that isn't amazing but if it's normal.

Now we have the double of games, 12 games per year, which 6 are against the powers of the southern hemisphere. So even with our best players is very very difficult to win a game. Then we have the same amount of games, except the games where we have always made ​​most wins (games at home) now we play with Tier 2 or even Tier 3 players, is very difficult to achieve a victory.

Not an excuse, but our best team should play against the powers of the southern hemisphere and play against the 6 Nations teams at away. Before we've won 3 games on average per year, 2 of 3 games at home and maybe a victory in Europe. Now it's very difficult to achieve 3 wins a year because the difficult schedule we have.

This is something I've talked a lot with rugby supporters, we are giving away a lot of prestige and are an easy target of jokes for soccer supporters who hate rugby and who want to see the Pumas lose every day. I think it isn't an exclusively the fault of the UAR, we have always had problems with our calendar. For example, the UAR made ​​an attempt to participate in the 6 Nations and European teams were refused, then we don't have many possibilities to choose our calendar, this is what we have now, it is very difficult but we are not able to choose. Maybe in a few years with our franchise in the Super Rugby we can be more competitive and we can use our best players ALL year.

 

[Feicarsinn]

There's no doubt in my mind that Keatley is the form guy.

I disagree on the Jones/D Kearney thing though. I reckon he wants to have a look at Zebo and Earls as full fledged wingers, while Henshaw is obviously seen as a centre for this tour. Even just for the purposes of training sessions it makes sense to have another 15 along.

 

[munstermuffin]

There's no doubt in my mind that Keatley is the form guy.

I disagree on the Jones/D Kearney thing though. I reckon he wants to have a look at Zebo and Earls as full fledged wingers, while Henshaw is obviously seen as a centre for this tour. Even just for the purposes of training sessions it makes sense to have another 15 along.

I know but I can't see Jones playing. I'd think Irish Rugby would've been better having Keatley as he can play 15, is on form but under Schmidt I think he could bench in a test covering 10 with option to use him as a 12 for last 20 and with the talent outside it'd be great option