[2014 Mid-Year Test] South Africa vs Wales (2nd Test)

[welshglory]

James is the opposite of Jenkins in playing style, not really a massive upgrade. He's a world class scrummager and average to poor in the loose, vice versa for Jenkins.

We don't really have any young gun who's ready to replace him either.

 

[welshglory]

James is the opposite of Jenkins in playing style, not really a massive upgrade. He's a world class scrummager and average to poor in the loose, vice versa for Jenkins.

We don't really have any young gun who's ready to replace him either.

Our depth is worrying in the following positions:
Loosehead
Hooker (established pros that is, some promising youngsters though)
Tighthead same as (hooker)
6/8 depth
Wing
Fullback

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Our depth is worrying in the following positions:
Loosehead
Hooker (established pros that is, some promising youngsters though)
Tighthead same as (hooker)
6/8 depth
Wing
Fullback

Probably easier to say your depth is ok at 4, 5 and 7

 

[Maverick1987]

James is the opposite of Jenkins in playing style, not really a massive upgrade. He's a world class scrummager and average to poor in the loose, vice versa for Jenkins.

We don't really have any young gun who's ready to replace him either.

I wouldn't say James is poor in the loose . Nothing outstanding but I would describe him as dependable . Anyway you need scrum stability at the moment . I don't think Jenkins work in the loose is as good as used to be . Certainly not enough to carry him getting carded against dominant THs all the time

If I was gats I'd try Davies at inside centre and North outside centre and play Jordan Williams (I think his name is from scarlets) on the wing . Roberts and Davies too predictable now

 

[welshglory]

Probably easier to say your depth is ok at 4, 5 and 7

I'd say depth is ok at 4/5, 7, 10, 12/13, and 9 kinda.

I wouldn't say James is poor in the loose . Nothing outstanding but I would describe him as dependable . Anyway you need scrum stability at the moment . I don't think Jenkins work in the loose is as good as used to be . Certainly not enough to carry him getting carded against dominant THs all the time

If I was gats I'd try Davies at inside centre and North outside centre and play Jordan Williams (I think his name is from scarlets) on the wing . Roberts and Davies too predictable now

Against the Boks his looseplay is poor it plus we'll be defending and the backfoot in the for the majority of the game as well. Is JDP a dominant tighthead?

I think Gats should have selected Allen and Davies in the midfield with J Williams at fullback. Roberts is not adding anything to the team and looks tired. Morgan did alright but i don't trust him to start an international at 15 especially with Biggar ar 10, with Hook maybe.

 

[welshglory]

Maybe giving Liam another shot would be fair but i just don't rate him as a player. Hopefully Amos can develop as a 15

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Boks could be without a number of overseas-based players for the Test against Scotland, as it falls outside of the IRB Test window:

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/overseas-boks-to-miss-scotland-test

if that is true then i'd reckon scotland could have a big chance off an upset even though we do have players going back to the top 14 eg Richie Gray, Johnnie Beattie etc.

It's not like the entire squad will be gone. In fact I'd argue we could see an inflated score with 'exciting' players probably coming in instead of the 'tried and tested'- who you'd rather want in a RWC final though- since Scotland themselves will be missing a few players and we have the depth and are at home after all.

Who would we lose?
M Steyn; Goosen and Boshoff are fine even though Steyn looks rested and has been playing well for us these 2 games
FdP possibly; a loss for sure but it would be good to get the deputy position whether Hougaard or one of Reinach/De Klerk sorted
Louw; playing well for us but Schalk Burger is playing like a man possesed after cheating death and the list of quality replacements is embarrassingly long
Habana; has been playing well for us but we'll be fine without

Botha; we have fitter and in form locks here in Flip van der Merwe, Stephan Lewies and Lood de Jager even with our two main locks Etzebeth and PS du Toit injured.
Brits; Strauss will have served his ban so there's an upgrade
Wynand Olivier; LOL so hard!
Pienaar; Oh, yes, please!!! We have dangerous opportunistic 9's in Reinach and De Klerk and Hougaard seems to be getting back to being at least not dreadful so IOW better than Pienaar
Steenkamp; a boost if anything

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's not like the entire squad will be gone. In fact I'd argue we could see an inflated score with 'exciting' players probably coming in instead of the 'tried and tested'- who you'd rather want in a RWC final though- since Scotland themselves will be missing a few players and we have the depth and are at home after all.

Agree with this.

It will give some of the more exciting players a chance to get a run.

the only positions where it would be of impact are:

6. Francois Louw
9. Fourie Du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana

and these guys can be subbed by players like:

Heinrich Brussouw/Schalk Burger
Francois Hougaard/Ruan Pienaar
Johan Goosen/Marnitz Boshoff
Lwazi Mvovo/JJ Engelbrecht/JP Pietersen

I'm not too worried about this rule... And if it's even possible, we could be even more potent in attack.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Agree with this.

It will give some of the more exciting players a chance to get a run.

the only positions where it would be of impact are:

6. Francois Louw
9. Fourie Du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana

and these guys can be subbed by players like:

Heinrich Brussouw/Schalk Burger
Francois Hougaard/Ruan Pienaar
Johan Goosen/Marnitz Boshoff
Lwazi Mvovo/JJ Engelbrecht/JP Pietersen

I'm not too worried about this rule... And if it's even possible, we could be even more potent in attack.

My feelings as well but please, not Pienaar! I seriously don't know what our selectors see that we havn't in his performances in a Bok jersey these last few years.

On a side note, I only now realised that we've saved our test on the Higheld for the RC. Can't believe I didn't pick up on it sooner. I suppose HM is influencing the scheduling as we've in the past seen NZ in CT and Aus in Durbs which is just silly from an SA perspective and we've seen what looks like deliberate scheduling since the days of PdV. Does anyone know if that is the case?

 

[welshglory]

For some reason Ulster fans seem to think he's the best 9 in the world

 

[TRF_heineken]

My feelings as well but please, not Pienaar! I seriously don't know what our selectors see that we havn't in his performances in a Bok jersey these last few years.

On a side note, I only now realised that we've saved our test on the Higheld for the RC. Can't believe I didn't pick up on it sooner. I suppose HM is influencing the scheduling as we've in the past seen NZ in CT and Aus in Durbs which is just silly from an SA perspective and we've seen what looks like deliberate scheduling since the days of PdV. Does anyone know if that is the case?

haha, I only mentioned Pienaar as no other Scrummie is in the squad, unless they are called up later. But I think it won't happen as Piet van Zyl is next in line, and he'll be with the Bulls in Namibia having a warm-up game before the recommencement of the Super Rugby torunament.

As for the scheduling, It could be the case that there was some sort of influence, and why not?? If it was up to me, I'd have all our games in the Highveld. Closer for me to go and watch...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

For some reason Ulster fans seem to think he's the best 9 in the world

I can only call what I see and I've not watched too many Ulster games but there must be SOME difference in the way he plays for them vs his game for the Bokke then!

haha, I only mentioned Pienaar as no other Scrummie is in the squad, unless they are called up later. But I think it won't happen as Piet van Zyl is next in line, and he'll be with the Bulls in Namibia having a warm-up game before the recommencement of the Super Rugby torunament.

As for the scheduling, It could be the case that there was some sort of influence, and why not?? If it was up to me, I'd have all our games in the Highveld. Closer for me to go and watch...

Pienaar is the new Kirchner; the guy that has somehow gotten a lot of caps and every now and then does something that kinda justifies his inclusion and TBF he is a steady enough fellow but just does not ADD much but even though everyone really actually does know better but he just keeps on getting called in somehow.

As sad as I am to say it (living in beautiful Cape Town) the Highveld is just better for us rugby-wise. Just to clarify; we breed them better down here but they play better up there.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I can only call what I see and I've not watched too many Ulster games but there must be SOME difference in the way he plays for them vs his game for the Bokke then!



Pienaar is the new Kirchner; the guy that has somehow gotten a lot of caps and every now and then does something that kinda justifies his inclusion and TBF he is a steady enough fellow but just does not ADD much but even though everyone really actually does know better but he just keeps on getting called in somehow.

As sad as I am to say it (living in beautiful Cape Town) the Highveld is just better for us rugby-wise. Just to clarify; we breed them better down here but they play better up there.

can't disagree with that statement about the breeding.

As for Pienaar, while I agree with your remarks, I can remember there was a time where everyone was talking about him as the prodigal son. And for a time he was, but then he started playing ****ty, and maybe it's a mental thing, but I think he never recovered fully.

 

[Peat]

Pienaar has had a mild dip for us this season, but even then has been classy. On peak form, he's been the best scrum-half in the NH.

I haven't watched as much of SA as I'd like, but I get the impression they'd like him to clear the ball faster. I feel that playing oop North doesn't prepare him well for that. I guess Meyer's not fussed about that.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Pienaar has had a mild dip for us this season, but even then has been classy. On peak form, he's been the best scrum-half in the NH.

I haven't watched as much of SA as I'd like, but I get the impression they'd like him to clear the ball faster. I feel that playing oop North doesn't prepare him well for that. I guess Meyer's not fussed about that.

That's precisely it, yes. Other than that he is solid player but he takes his sweet time servicing the backline which closes up the options. Not that Hougaard for one is much faster and that has been a big concern for me; FdP our only incumbent 9 which clears from the base rather than having a jog and a good long look before clearing and the selectors seemingly uninterested in bringing in new blood at 9.

 

[Big Ewis]

so Wales drop Adam Jones, huh...it might be over for the TH, or at least very, very soon. Wales were virtually unbeatable in the scrum during his prime, big shame...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

so Wales drop Adam Jones, huh...it might be over for the TH, or at least very, very soon. Wales were virtually unbeatable in the scrum during his prime, big shame...

True but you have to call it a day at some point- wish Jannie du Plessis gets a hint. But who knows, maybe some rest sees him back to his (and the) best; just look at Victor Matfield back and playing good rugby (admittedly not exactly like of old) after being a commentator and coach for 3 years.

 

[Big Ewis]

well Tighthead is seriously the scarcest of all positions without a doubt for me. You need your tighthead to dominate the opposing LH, he's expected to do that. He needs to be big but not too big, or he can't scrummage well. He needs technique. And he reaches maturity when he's around his 30's, or right before that mark, a point after which he's already in the waning period of his career and is slowing down.
In theory, ideally, you'd need a nation to produce an excellent Tighthead like a factory every 5 years, and chain em up. Each guy plays from 27yo to 32yo, and then next. Next. Next.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

well Tighthead is seriously the scarcest of all positions without a doubt for me. You need your tighthead to dominate the opposing LH, he's expected to do that. He needs to be big but not too big, or he can't scrummage well. He needs technique. And he reaches maturity when he's around his 30's, or right before that mark, a point after which he's already in the waning period of his career and is slowing down.
In theory, ideally, you'd need a nation to produce an excellent Tighthead like a factory every 5 years, and chain em up. Each guy plays from 27yo to 32yo, and then next. Next. Next.

True. In SA our major hurdle at this stage is we have the quality or at least the potential quality BUT they are young and move off for bigger money before they hit their peak even so we either stick to what we have- like currently- or have maybe a little too young guys. For some reason our selectors are happy to call up overseas based players on previous reputation rather than actual current form so those props we have up North go to waste.

 

[collace]

Pienaar has had a mild dip for us this season, but even then has been classy. On peak form, he's been the best scrum-half in the NH.

I haven't watched as much of SA as I'd like, but I get the impression they'd like him to clear the ball faster. I feel that playing oop North doesn't prepare him well for that. I guess Meyer's not fussed about that.

Would agree with that.

Having watched some genuinely world class performances from Pienaar in Ulster colours (Leicester away this seanon springs to mind) it has always shocked me how poorly he was rated the SA fans - then I watched him a couple of times in a SA shirt.

I don't know if it's a lack of confidence when playing for SA but there is definately something missing. An example, during the game against World XV he had a box kick charged down on his own 22 having given himself no shield - I can't recall ever having seen that in an Ulster shirt, he always makes sure a couple of forwards are in place before a box kick. That's just a small thing but it struck me.

Perhaps he has greater confidence at Ulster knowing that he is the main man, that the game will revolve around him - going as far as kicking goals and for touch as a 9 - and that Ulster fans genuinely love him. The same can't be said when lining out for SA.